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Wow RGM - I think you have a bigger problem than you think you do. She is cutting herself? That is something that usually teenagers do, not adults - she has some MAJOR issues.

Usually people that cut, can't express things such as anger, hurt, shame, frustration, or depression. A person might cut because of losing someone close (her father AND mother) or to escape a sense of emptiness. Cutting, to some, seems like the only way to find relief or express personal pain over relationships or rejection because they don't know how to express themselves verbally (this is why it is usually younger people that do it)

Cutting is sometimes associated with depression, bipolar disorder, eating disorders, or compulsive behaviors (Your W sounds VERY depressed to me). It can also be a sign of drug or alcohol abuse.

Once again, I think she desperately needs to get some help. I would be concerned for your kids too, not that she would ever hurt them but what if they saw her doing that to herself? YIKES - that would devastate them

Well there's a couple of things to consider here and this may be a possibilty. Just something to ponder....

I have observed this in some age 40+ women, and there's even a book out there about this... around menopause (not to say your wife is entering it but the time frame for this can be anytime in the late 30s to 50s. Premenopause and hormonal changes can occur very early or very late and can be severe or mild). When a woman is in her younger child-bearing years her body creates "caretaking" hormones. This is nature's way of ensuring that helpless and very needy human infants are patiently taken care of.

As women move into the premenopausal and menopausal stage these caretaking hormones decrease. Biologically, this is generally around the time children are older and teens... when they don't need as much caretaking and are closer to "leaving the nest." As that hormone decreases an individual is more likely to start thinking about themselves, their needs, where they want to be. I don't want to say that they become more selfish, but I think there's a tendency for some women to go in that direction. This is nature's way of ensuring that we let go of our kids. Of course different women probably experience this at different levels.

The description of your wife desiring to get more involved with her career and get away from childrearing reminded me of this. Combine this with her age and there may be something in this.

But then the whole cutting thing, that's a bigger problem. You need to find out how emotionally stable or unstable your wife is.

Quite frankly, I think she has a MUCH bigger problem with the cutting than anything to do with perimenopause and her hormones - cutting is a sure sign of some very deep emotionally and/or psychological problems. It is a cry for help (just like attempted suicide is)

Personally, if it were me, I would make an appointment to talk to your GP about it and see if they can recommend someone for you to talk to. Express your concerns about your W - of course DON'T tell your W you are doing this but I think I would be genuinely concerned at this point. I think there is a way more serious issue going on other than a EA/PA

RGM,

Not sure how I can respond, except I am sending a special prayer for your W, you & family. Don't worry about my thread, WAH-MLCer "seems" to be trying for child, but is still in MLC.

Check in when you can, but know I am out here sending you support.

Major PMA & Atta Boys for you!

BeingMe,Heywyre and ROOT,
Thanks for stopping by. You're all right there's a lot to be concerned about in all of this. When D got dropped first time last year, I did exactly what I shouldn't have done. I called her every name under the book, biotch, selfish; tried to guilt her out of her decision. You name it I did it. Then once I started calming down & DBng, I tried to talk rationally to her. About relationships, responsibilty, parenting, what it would do to the kids,MLC. I've tried to talk to W about all and she denies any depression says I'm trying to be controlling and guilt her into staying. I should have mentioned on the earlier post that the "cutting" that occurred last year didn't last very long. AAMF, that's actually what was able to get us started on MC, as well as W in IC. She hasn't done it since. But when we were going through the D last summer, one of the things I was very concerned about was her mental state. I even contemplated a restraining order to keep her away from the kids. I've asked, talked, pleaded w/ her to consider AD or at least go to a PSYC to get evaluated. As for the GP or menopause, all things that have been considered or done. About a year ago W was convinced she was starting MP, based on her "support group" @ work. She even went to GP for some testing. Not sure why her GP, but anyway. Doc told her no where even close. Last summer,as things were escalating I was really desperate. Additional background-after birth of S8, W diagnoised w/ postpartum depression. She would never consider taking meds, but she went to 2 or 3 sessions w/ a "counselor". W said it cured her. Now to current. I called her OBGYN, thinking if she helped W before, maybe again. Told her all of the sitch. I also knew that W had skipped last cple years of female check-ups. Asked the OBGYN to call W on the premise that she hadn't been in for a while. When W would go in, Doc was going to evaluate and ask some questions then make recommendation to go for PSYC evail and maybe get on meds. W won't ever listen to any of my suggestions, but she holds Doc in high reguards. She's known her for many years. I figured if OBGYN & a PSYC Doc told to get on meds, she'd listen. Doc called her, but W never followed up. Instead of returning call to OB, she just went through the scheduler, put appt. out like 3 or 4 mnths. I blew it & told her the reason her OB had called was b/c of me. Of course W exploded. Called back and cancelled her OB appt. and called her GP. Thats when she got hormone levels checked and GP told her she wasn't approaching MP.

Thank You MariS. It's alway appreciated.


Sometimes, as I read all the different threads, I think why am I having to deal w/ someone like W and there are other DB'rs dealing w/ the same prob. from the other direction w/ the S. We all should just start swapping S. There are an awful lot of caring people on this BB, we just seemed to be paired w/ the wrong people.

RGM

First off, you sure did blow it. Sheesh, why didn't you just wait out the time and let her go 3-4 months down the road. There is NO WAY she would fall for that one a second time in a row.

Ok - onto plan two. Is there someone (other than you, of course) that could say something to her (without spilling the beans) and say something along the lines of "gee "W" you seem to be really up and down these days and stressed out - every think about going to see someone to talk it out?"

I know that isn't exactly right but you get the drift - however, her guard is going to be totally up on that one too

However, you did mention her "support group" at work - anyone in there that you can be honest and upfront with, knowing full well they won't say anything to her? Maybe they could assist you?

Other than that, I don't know she really seems to have some major issues. Has no one at work mentioned anything to her or you about the cutting? That is still my major concern and I think it REALLY needs to be addressed, even if it ticks her off. It's called tough love!

What would you do if it was your teenager? Basically this is the same thing, she is acting very similar to a troubled teen. I know if it was me, I would do everything I could to have her committed or seen by a psych. Once she has gone at least once, they would be monitoring her closely and you wouldn't have to be involved but in the meantime, I think you are going to have to take some drastic measures.

Heywyre,
The cutting is still a concern in the back of my mind, but it's been a year since that occurred. I honestly think it was an attention getter. Her GFs (support group 2)really got on her, as did I. She promised everyone never to do it again. She's been in IC for almost a year. When all of this came up last year, I did confide in one of W's GF. Turned out GF is a sympathizer. I'm now the root of things evil and male. Support Group(1, female co-workers, I don't know anyone real well. W has never been one to socialize w/ the group. She always kept home/work seperate. Only time we ever got together was office Christmas party, even then not yearly. End of last summer, after we reconciled, we ended up out 2 her bosses house for a BBQ. When I walked in w/ W, all the office staff just stared as I came through the door. I can only imagine what she's told them. On our way home W told me her boss commented I seemed like a pretty nice guy. W probably had them thinking I was a snaggled tooth ogre, that beat her daily and ate my kids and tortured the dogs.:)

She's still going to C, but one of my new found concerns is the C doesn't know exactly what our M sitch is. As I've said. W has a huge self-esteem problem. Everything she is working on, reading, doing, is to be more independent and internally strong @ sacrafice of the R,M,& F. I even asked W if, while we were having really tough times last year, I coulc talk to C. No go. I ask MC to talk to C to make sure C understood R situation. MC said no, I should concentrate more on myself improvement than trying to convince C of W's problems. I could get her to understand why I was asking her to do this. Not to try to sway her to my corner, but to make sure C knew there were M problems and she was telling W to do certain things detrimental. Maybe C would take a different path to get to the same destination kinda thing.

W has told me her view of herself has been crappy b/c of her dad and brothers. Now I'm lumped in w/ them. She sees the only way she can be of value is b/c of her abilities and reputation of her job. I really think this is the force behind why she's want to strictly focus on her job. It's the only thing that no one could possible tell her she isn't doing well on. Not that she's told that now.

Pity your W can't realise that as a child she didn't turn out to be that resilient (otherwise, she wouldn't be harbouring all these feelings about her father and brothers), so how does she think her own children are going to feel about her once they are grown up. Are they going to be resenting her for being an absent mother?

RGM, I truly hope she wakes up soon, and understands that it's time to grow up, and leave the past where it belongs, but also learn from it, and try not to repeat it in the future. She must stop defining the one's who love her now, based on what other's did to her in the past, before she can really grow, and find value in herself, job or no job.

I got one of those spam messages the other day from my niece. I rarely read them, but this one stood out. Maybe y'all have seen it already, but it bears repeating. I will post it separately, below.

Take care.

I cringe sometimes when I think of the times I thoughtlessly dealt with my children.


F A M I L Y
I ran into a stranger as he passed by,
"Oh excuse me please" was my reply,
He said, "Please excuse me too;
I wasn't watching for you."

We were very polite, this stranger and I.
We went on our way and we said goodbye.
But at home a different story is told,
How we treat our loved ones, young and old.

Later that day, cooking the evening meal,
My son stood beside me very still.
When I turned, I nearly knocked him down.
"Move out of the way," I said with a frown.

He walked away, his little heart broken.
I didn't realize how harshly I'd spoken.
While I lay awake in bed,
God's still small voice came to me and said,

"While dealing with a stranger, common courtesy you use,
but the family you love, you seem to abuse.
Go and look on the kitchen floor,
You'll find some flowers there by the door.

Those are the flowers he brought for you.
He picked them himself: pink, yellow and blue.
He stood very quietly not to spoil the surprise,
you never saw the tears that filled his little eyes."

By this time, I felt very small,
And now my tears began to fall.
I quietly went and knelt by his bed;
"Wake up, little one, wake up," I said.

"Are these the flowers you picked for me?"
He smiled, "I found 'em, out by the tree.
I picked 'em because they're pretty like you.
I knew you'd like 'em, especially the blue."

I said, "Son, I'm very sorry for the way I acted today;
I shouldn't have yelled at you that way."
He said, "Oh, Mom, that's okay.
I love you anyway."

I said, "Son, I love you too,
and I do like the flowers, especially the blue."

FAMILY
Are you aware that if we died tomorrow, the company that we are working for could easily replace us in a matter of days.

But the family we left behind will feel the loss for the rest of their lives.

And come to think of it, we pour ourselves more into work than into our own family, an unwise investment indeed, don't you think? So what is behind the story?

Do you know what the word FAMILY means?
FAMILY = (F)ATHER (A)ND (M)OTHER (I) (L)OVE (Y)OU