how does one exsist in a m that they don't want to be in that they are tired of "trying" to make work.
mil just called asking if I knew that new sil's grandmother just passed away? no I did not know. well the wake was last night? she's being burried today...she's been trying to call h to make sure he knew but apparently knows that we didn't know cause neither of us were at the wake last night...
thing is what really bothers me is you know what many many members of my family have passed away and mil did not bother to call bil to see if he knew to acknowledge the loss. I don't belong with h and I don't belong with his family either...I just happen to have been born under the wrong heritage to truly make them happy. and ya know what. I don't give a rat any more. I am me, if they don't like me then they like h can f off!!!
I have been trying to make this r work for too long! there is a bag of letters up in h's drawer that are old! (some over ten years old) me expressing the same feelings I have now. h has never expressed his emotions to me not even emotions for me but emotions or feelings about anything in general. it must just be that I am not the one that does it for h, some people are foolish enough to think there is a "one" out there for them, the "one" that holds the key to open them up... I am not that person for h and ow was. there is nothing I can do about it anymore. h never wanted to open up to me and still doesn't.
Quoting lostlove: ...told me he never felt "that way" about me.
Yet you stated he use to make you feel special, like a "queen" years ago. Its hard to believe that he can make you feel like a special person, convince you and himself with his actions that you should become a married couple without ever having "those" feelings. It seems to me that his doubts that have developed in more recent years are still clouding his memories.
Quote: convince you and himself with his actions that you should become a married couple without ever having "those" feelings.
his actions even at the time of proposal were that way. h had already met ow then (she's a customer) and had spent some time with her then (unknown to me) realized that things could be diff, that he could feel a diff way, didn't know he could feel that way, never felt that way with me, no this can't be right, I'm supposed to be with LL, I'm marrying LL, so he stayed away from ow, BUT his feelings for me never changed, he never felt "that way" for me and therefore ended up going back to spending time with ow because he missed that feeling and it was still there, so spent more and more time with her, supposedly innocently as friends. more and more time, till he was stopping by her house 3x a week and talking to her everyday. this is when he got caught with her but before he would admit to what the r was to him (I knew) so...(history) he leaves because "love you not in love with you" (this my friends is not alien speak on h's part but the truth, he may have been in love with me once but that was a long time ago when he was 19 and I was 16 it has been gone for years) h asked me to marry him because "it was the next step" and this is what he said after comming home.
it matters not I suppose who h loves or is in love with as long as I stay strong enough and am willing to sacrifice a life without passion, sharing, compasion, emotion, companionship then all will be well.
look these are the facts that I must live with, h is not an alien, h is not in mlc, h is a man who met someone when he was 19 that he really liked even fell in love with but then he sunk himself into his business and neglected said person (me) because he didn't know any better, didn't know how to deal with a r and a business. I went to school, spent time with my friends etc... but h still sunk almost all of his energy into his business and neglected "us" though I tried and tried to get h to do things with me, spend qt together etc, it was most often met with indifference or annoyance..this is the way it went for years, I continued to feel like I didn't really matter, like I was just there, the vacations and promisses of "the good life" were great and all but where's the life? so the story goes, we marry, things don't really change, we have a child, things don't change cept h withdraws more and more occasionally comming around and giving me a taste of the man he used to be the reason I hung in there.. we build a home a promise of a good life of qt with "our" family.. conceive a second child to add to that family but all the while h is withdrawing more and more and why I'm asking... let's go see a movie or go out to dinner we won't be able to go out for a while once the baby is born and it is harder to get a sitter for two than for one...nothing...h comes home everynight but is tired and has little to offer...I see his family complaining about his lack of attention to me and to s. I start to defend h in that he works hard so we can have this nice life and this nice home that you come to visit (empty handed) each weekend for cookouts. start to accept that h is just "shut off" as a result of all the stress he is under from running said business. have second child and get a bit of post partem blues, esp since h doesn't take the time off we had talked about him taking off when we were conceiving. three months later h is seen in elevator with ow..confesses "friendship" we try... h is attentive but I am angry, hurt, resentful and have lot's of questions that h doesn't want to answer. h eventually leaves. plans to be with ow (but doesn't tell me) ow asks her h for d (known from ow as I was foolish enough to call her often as h wasn't talking to me) h returns eventually but even at his most emotional of times the most emotion he expresses is that he needs for s to be ok. h persues me. h eventually comes home everynight, puts ring that I left on cill back on but does not ask me to do the same.
does any of this matter???
to me it is simply proof of the fact that all these years I have not mattered.
when h did attend c with me (twice at beginging of sep) talked to c about the fact that all of h's focus was on his proffessional life, c asked ok that's in good order now what about the other parts of your life, h responds "i was waiting to be pulled out" guess what folks ow was that person.. the one who woke him up! and he admits to it.
I suppose none of it matters as long as the "important" things are taken care of...the house will be paid for and maintaned...the kids will be given love and affection and qt...I will be well provided for financially and that is that.
so suppose I should just shut up and accept my life.
ll, you don't have to accept anything less than what you deserve. i think your plan of concentrating on you, gym, school, friends, etc, this is all good. you need a break from working on the marriage. make yourself as happy as you can. maybe someday you will feel strong enough to leave and find something else. or maybe your h will allow himself to fall back in love with you and fight like hell for your marriage. in the meantime do what you need to do to be ok. lisa
Sorry for your frustration. You are staring to sound like Belle...have you read her posts? She's a borderline WAW, but her H is a bit more belligerant than your H.
You know, I was reading the book "After the Affair" last night and it said that our Ses have to TOTALLY cut ALL contact with OP in order to get on with R because possibilities of continuing the A will exist (although it seems many people on this board that have been successful rebuilding their Rs have not had to totally resort to this). Now, I know that this might contradict some DBing efforts, but I think, in our situation, where our Ses are "back," that at some point they have to be willing to do what it takes to get on with our Rs. There's other stuff in this book that seems pretty relevant to our sitches. Without getting into the details, I think you ought to buy it...
Also, given your sitch, it seems like your H has been unwilling to do what it REALLY takes to fix, or rebuild, your R, which is hard work. (on a side note, my W hates it when I use the term "fix" in reference to our R) I think that, until he's fully focused on trying to fix your R, that things will continue as they are...either relatively stagnant or ever so slowly working his way back home. At some point our Ses should be willing to evaluate themselves and try and help our Rs. However, only you can decide when it's best to approach your H on this subject.
So, there are a few things you can do, from what I see. You can continue not really saying anything and him not say anything, and see if, over a goodly amount of time he comes around. Or, you can "push" (test boundaries) working on your R with him, whether it be spending time reading books and doing M exercises together, going to C, or something else. It certainly seems like you will be a WAW if this continues, and you will not live the rest of your life with your H. The signs are there...like systematically remember the negative aspects of the beginning of your R, rather than focusing on the good aspects. It might also be prudent to really document your goals and see if he really is coming around.
I'm sorry, LL. It just seems like you guys are in a holding pattern, and you need to shake it up and change the dynamic.
DISCLAIMER: I am basing things on my own experiences and am not encouraging anything one way or the other...just offering suggestions/thoughts. I don't want to be branded a heretic.
Quoting lostlove: ...so suppose I should just shut up and accept my life.
(((((LL))))) I'm going to lay myself on the line here ... IMHO, this is against what you are fighting for. The single and foremost important aspect to DBing is to be true to yourself and do what will make you happy in life. Settling for a "loveless" R will not succeed in making you happy and having a successful M. With that said, you and your H will have to search deep down in your souls to answer is this really a "loveless" R and is there no potential for it to change? Right now, I feel you or your H can't answer that with any degree of certainly right now although I believe you are trying to convince yourself that and that it will still be OK with that outcome. It will not! ... and you don't deserve that! You will come to feel defeated in life. Even the children don't deserve to grow up in that climate.
LL, at this juncture it may be best to consider a phone consultation with the "professionals" here to help you find the answers so you can find direction for your life again and give your H a chance to answer that question for himself and for your sake as well.
thanks for the advice folks. don't think a call is worth the expense and besides it's all h's money and I'd not doubt get [censored] for it as I am already seeing a c. my c by the way was convinced over the summer while h was headed down the d train that perhaps h just isn't the man for me. I don't know if h is the man for me or not. I feel that reading r books and doing this and doing that and having an understanding of r's is only drawing me closer and closer to just mere acceptance of things. when h first came to me with saddness at being in his "hell" and just wanting peace and wanting to "fix" things but not knowing how, I gave him dr...he read the infidelity section and gung-ho started to read the rest but that was the end of that.. one little evening of reading... I then bought mars and venus and started to read it. read some of it to h and he seemed attentive to it. asked h to go to c. (he doesn't want to "yet" and perhaps never will)
h feels that I have always wanted to "change" him... no I do not want to change him I would just like to change the way that we relate or interact with eachother.
I already know what it will be like to be in a "loveless" m, have been in one for years already, these feelings of mine are not new...hell if I had enough balls I would have left years ago and perhaps would not have even been around at the time of proposal anyway.
h does "try" I guess, he did after all take my car this morning to get a new inspection sticker, new registration and have it cleaned. BUT the excitment and affection and love and attention I see him give to his kids, his lawn, his cave and his football or even to his "buddie" is seriously lacking when it comes to me. I know it's in there burried he showed it to me when he first started to come around...following me around the house, hugging me, looking at me, persuing me sexually, spending time with me, calling me and just talking with me, sitting on the couch cuddling and attentavly watching tv with me...it's in there somewhere... I just don't know how to get it back and keep it around.
I want to cry all the time and the funny thing is over the summer while h was gone and wanting a d...it was not depression that I felt it was anxiety...now I am not anxious I am depressed. I thought things would change but it seems that they haven't. maybe I should not have asked h to move home maybe I should have just let him continue to come when he felt like it, maybe I should not have asked that he stop contact with ow, (though she is still a customer! ) he still has his appartment but I know at this point he will not leave again unless I start going on regular tangents packing up his stuff.
I don't know what I can do anymore...there is no point in asking him to go to c again because I know what the answer will be...the books are still here but he (probably) wont read them.
I want to do this, I want to explore every option but I suppose just like his taste in decorating (h is content with the bland dining room never painted old 40$ walmart rug, stock chandelier, 3$ sheers, and our old kitchenette set) while I want some style.
there's not much else I can do but focus on me and make myself as happy as I can be. if h doesn't want to participate in an active loving r with me then so be it not much I can do about it anymore.
LL, I hate hearing you sound so...resigned. KAW is right and that IT IS NOT fair for you to continue in a loveless R, and I'm convinced your dynamics have to change to change the R. If you think having a session with a DB coach will help, then do it...to heck with the money.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and be exceedingly blunt. Hopefully, I won't get any flack for it. There are two very interesting things I learned in the "After the Affair" book: 1) That when our Ses ask for a S, it is most often because they want to spend time with OP...where we are not monitoring their every move. 2) When our Ses continue having "some" connection to OP, there is always the possibility of a recurrence. 3) Until 1 and 2 are ceased, our S will not be focused on us.
Now, this is what the book says and I know there are always variations...so it isn't gospel. For example, I know some people S to have time to think things over and some people still maintain contact with OP and it is okay, such as in a work environment.
LL's sitch: For #1, your H still keeps an apartment. Being S does NOT help an R. Spending quality time together does (although, admittedly, I've heard positive things about people being S for a while). He's not staying in apartment and is at home. Good. But does the ease of moving back to the apartment exist? For #2, OW is still a client of H. I imagine that the income he receives from her business is minimal. What does this likely mean? The door is still open a crack and your H won't admit it, either because he thinks he has the willpower, or he knows he doesn't.
My feeble opinion? Your H has to make the move to eliminate #1 and #2 in order to really focus on your R. He has not done this yet, and still might given some time. Should you be patient? Should you be demanding? I don't know, that's for you to decide.
In my sitch, although my W ended the PA last October, she continued to talk on the phone with OM until I found out. She agreed never to have contact with him, nor ever to go to the bar in which she met him. This was the step we needed to move on to actually work on our R... That's not to say your H is carrying on with OW...who knows. His focus just isn't where it should be...yet... I just think he elminating these things will kickstart his efforts a bit more. I also will say that it's likely you continuing to be patient for some time will make him eliminate these things himself. Which is better...you asking him to eliminate the obstacles or he doing it himself? I don't know the answer. What I do know is that the longer he persists, the more difficult it is for you...
) he still has his appartment but I know at this point he will not leave again unless I start going on regular tangents packing up his stuff.