Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Coming out of our "entitlement" ruts?

Hi, zuzu.

Have we lost you? Come on back, we don't really bite that hard

-NOPkins-

I haven't heard from her via email either. Not sure what's up. I hope she's doing ok.

Hi everyone!

I'm SORRY, I have just been busy! Last weekend, it was late and I'd had many beers and I checked online really quickly, and saw your posts about what I SHOULD have done (agreed), but did not have time to respond and have not been on once since!

Joey just left this morning for a 5-day business trip. We've been busy lately. The big thing I never got around to mentioning from the last "episode" I journaled about was that I did one of the things from Joey's "list" (he hates me to call it that) and did so willingly. We talked about it briefly in counseling and he acknowledged that it helped him. While we did ARGUE in that session, he said going into it that he wanted to make a deal/promise/whatever you want to call it that we would ML that night no matter what happened. I said SURE! Great! It did get heated, but we ARE moving forward. We have each had our moments of being reminded of things that burn us up and make us feel angry and entitled but are dealing with them better.

He says that in that session he said things he has never said before, in trying to explain his feelings to me. He says he thinks I still don't get it, but those "things" he wants me to do sexually are to try and heal our sexual relationship since that is what was "taken away" when I dumped him and decided he was "not good enough" for me anymore. I tried to say, "was have shared so many things, like having a child together, traveling to foreign countries together, sharing decades together, buying a home together..." He said yes, and those are all great, but the one thing that I have shared with someone else that I cannot ever share with him is sexual stuff, like, before I met him, having sex for the first time, and after I met him and broke up with him, telling someone else that I loved them, etc. He sounded as if he had never really believed me that I had never had anal or swallowing experiences with him, but he just said that the straight, missionary (boring) sex I have given to other people and it's not that special because of it. Half of me wants to keep ranting, "So WHY was it ok for 15 years?" But i know it wasn't "ok." He rather dramatically says, "I just CHOKED IT DOWN all those years and only had MOMENTS of happiness." The other half of me understands a LITTLE better.

One funny thing he said was that he DID notice when I was doing things ... he couldn't find the word, just *different*. He said it almost seemed like I was on a chatboard with other women, talking about things and getting ideas (!) lol! He got immediately heated and angry, when I said like what things, with a big smile...because he's not going to tell me or they don't count, but THOSE are the kinds of things that helps him in dealig with the past.

So, that's where we stand. I said I was not comfortable with him traveling like I always used to be. He really does not know how to respond to that and I can tell it's all he can do not to get defensive or clam up (which pisses me off that he isn't more understanding and apologetic, but continues to downplay his actions while making MUCH MORE of mine). He will repeat "ILY" over and over, which is certainly better than nothing. He said that he felt things are much different now than when he first started communicating with Pam. We both agreed we didn't want to get into it, as he was about to leave for his trip, but I said, "We can have the same argument again about what the previous year was like, we don't agree, but that was part of what hurt, Joey, being blindsided because I didn't know my marriage was at the point of being threatened." That was about it and we said goodbye in a positive way with hugs, kisses and a promise to call each night. (Although I just noticed it's 10:20 and no call yet.)

So, that's what's up. Hopefully it's all good from here. OH! At dinner after our session, I suggested we go to Christie's. He SO tried to play cool, but casually said OK, and promptly paid the check. LOL. It was kind of hard finding something that didn't seem totally smutty, but we did buy some new toys and used them that night, with good results. I was "distracted" because of [censored] about Pam going through my head when we had sex this morning, but it was still nice. He could tell, but it didn't ruin it. I am trying. I reminded him it's only been about 2.5 months. He acts a bit exasperated over it, but tough.

I'm dubbing our old camcorder tapes to dvd and doing a little scrapbooking now that kids are asleep. Phew! Take care and thanks for checking in on me!!!!!!

Hi everyone,

I'm a little better now, but was really disappointed in myself last night. It was the end of a long day and Joey is out of town. I was talking with him on the phone and lost my patience (S1 spilled water all over as I was trying to clean him up). I just kind of needed Joey to be supportive and empathetic. It would help SOO much if he would just acknowledge that he would be feeling frustrated at times just the same, but I feel like instead he kind of reels back, eyes bugged out and acts like I'm mental. He just said, "I love you," which I certainly appreciate, but it's not specifically what I need right then. I know that those are weak moments for me and it's not "fair" to expect him to help me, but that's what having a partner is for, right? My two best girlfriends, one with kids, one without, ALWAYS makes me feel better, totally supportive and empathetic. I guess I should just drop it and not expect him to be able to be that for me. He actually started berating ME, tellig me that I needed to respond when he said ILY, (I was just trying to regain my cool for a minute).

Anyhow, I'm rambling and Sam is fussing trying to get in my lap. I need to try and get him down for a nap so I can go take a shower. I just tried to make coffee and set Sam on the counter in front of me. I turned around for half a second and he pulled the coffee filter and got coffee EVERYWHERE. Am I the only one who gets frustrated by these types of situations? Have I been a stay-at-home mom too long? Cadesmom, I know you can relate, but you always seem so strong. What's wrong with me?

Take care, everyone!

Sweetie, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU, but like I said before, I think you need to step back and think about what you really want here. I think you are having too many expectations from H instead of just focusing on what YOU can be doing to help your M. I know this all sucks and isn't fair, but life isn't fair. Like I said over in Chrome's thread, sometimes we have to be the bigger person and be the one who puts the effort into making our M what we want it to be and not EXPECT our H to do a darn thing. If we don't EXPECT, then when they don't necessarily do anything to help, validate our feelings, etc., etc., we aren't constantly feeling let down by them or disappointed by what WE wanted or felt like THEY should be doing/saying.

Now, this all sounds great & wonderful, but I'm certainly not saying that I feel this way all the time, but this is how I'm trying to live. I'm trying to decide what I can do to make things good and not expect others to make things good for me.

As far as being a stay at home mom, the grass is always greener, trust me. I was very frustrated when I was a stay at home mom and now that I'm working full-time and pretty much have to work, I don't feel like I have enough time w/ my boys.

Let's take the spilled water for instance. These days, I would think "well, at least it was water and not red kool-aid on the carpet!!" It's kind of like the old "don't cry over spilled milk" thing. Yes, it's frustrating, but if you just kind of think "whatever" and move on, you don't have to get mad, frustrated, ruin your day type stuff. Same w/ the coffee deal.

You also need to keep in mind (and guys don't be taking offense here) that our H's think differently than we do. Your H is not going to be all lovey-dovey w/ you when you get all pissed off b/c son just spilled water all over the place. The way I have been thinking about stuff, with H gone all the time now, is that he is dealing w/ his own stuff right now and what is he REALLY going to be able to do about whatever it is I'm dealing w/ as far as taking care of the boys, household, etc. What am I going to gain or accomplish by whining & crying to him about that stuff?

Please don't take any of this as me trying to act "high & mighty" because I'm sure not. It's all so much easier said than done, but when we actually sit back and look at things clearly and then try to put into action what we know in our minds that we should be doing, sometimes things start going more smoothly.

CM,

Thanks, I know all this, I *KNOW* it, I just can't seem to live it. Let me rephrase that, I can live it about 90% of the time, but the times when I CRACK are the times like above. The water on the floor? Totally laughed about it and wiped it up so many other times that day, but holding the phone in the crook of my shoulder, Mari interrupting, Sam filthy AFTER we just took a bath, just one thing on top of another on top of another. I have tried to explain this to H that when you're around the kids for an HOUR, it doesn't build, when you're around them 24/7 is when it starts to build. I notice by the end of the weekend sometimes, I am trying to calm Joey down b/c he will be getting really short fused with Mari and say, "Why do I have to keep repeating myself?" A part of me is like, "welcome to my world" and a part of me just wants to help him the way I want to be helped.

So, in a PERFECT world, THIS is the kind of thing Joey would say in those moments on the phone where I'm obviously frustrated:

This is a response from my best friend today via email:

I am soo sorry how stressful the kids can be!!! I am just visualizing the chatter and messes—I would freak out! I only have a 33-year-old baby and 3 animals to contend with.

After (fiancee) had gone to bed last night I was cleaning up a little—the kitchen for the 4th night in a row—and I came across his dirty black socks in the LR again—he takes them off and leaves them and shoes in the LR EVERY DAY. I kinda wigged out and said under breath as I threw the socks into the hallway, “I HATE these effing socks!” I realized that if he’d seen or heard me he would have thought I was a crazy b-tch.

You are NOT the only who feels like this. You are just like all the other stay-at-home moms who get sick of the strain and mess and noise and sometimes come to the end of your rope. You are Not like all of them in that you don’t hit them, pour scalding water on them, dunk them head-first into scalding water, etc. We had a toddler die here in our burn unit a week ago who had third degree burns and a head injury from her 19-year-old mom. Other died a while back with burns and lung injuries from being dipped head-first into boiling water. You are NOT like these people. You just need relief, time to yourself, a way to feel accomplished.

Do consider the benefits of going back to work, ok? I know you will eventually, but sooner may be better than later.

I meant to send you an article I read recently that said that couples where the wife works are statistically more likely to stay married that ones where she stays home. It was a surprising study b/c traditionally that’s not how it used to be. It talked about the added income, the value of both spouses working and feeling equal, etc. It didn’t offer a lot, though. Just made me think of you…

I think there’s got be some resentment on Joey’s side that he’s the only bread-winner and you are constantly draining the budget. I’m sure the thoughts creep in there, ya know? Instead of him being the hero at work hearing your frustrations on the phone about being home all day, you would both be out and come home as equals with a paycheck and equal time to spend with the kids. Just an idea to ponder.

Ok, just so you all don't think I'm a horrible mom, I can be a complainer sometimes, but it is a BEAUTIFUL day here and we are getting ready to head out to the park. I do LOVE my kids and sometimes just want more support and understanding from my husband. A family friend is taking them to Chuck E. Cheese tonight just for the fun of it, so I'll have a couple hours to myself. I would like to do a Firm workout and maybe scrapbook some. I vow not to clean and organize closets!! Thanks for letting me vent here.

And especially thanks to you, Kelly. Mwah!

Hello there!

just wanted to pop in and give a quick update. H was out of town on business, the first time since everything happened. Returned last night. I bought him some of his favorite cookies and candy and tried to sneak them into his suitcase. He found them when he was packing, but still said thank you, of course. Said he appreciated the thought. We have been getting along much better. He did not call quite like he said he would when he was gone, but I think his reasons were very valid. I was irritated to hear that his boss "always wants to watch porn." After reading some things on here, I casually mentioned porn in hotel rooms and he surprised me by confirming that yes, his boss wants to watch it every trip. He doesn't even ask, just turns it on. H said it really irritated him because he saw porn as more of a prelude to either sex or masturbation at least, not something for two guys to sit in a hotel room and watch, just because they're off on business. (I do recall now that H said he always wanted to go to strip clubs, but H's lack of interest dissuaded him from bringing it up after a while.)

Anyhow, when he came home, spirits were good and one of our kids was with grandma (out of state for 2 days) so we put the other one to bed and had some great sex. I offered to do one of the OTHER things from the list (that's 2.5 out of 3). He wasn't able to make it work right then, he was very hot and turned on though (so don't know why) so we had fun without that part. I asked him on the phone today why he wouldn't let me, he said his body just wasn't cooperating and he wanted to do something else, quickly followed with, "there will be PLENTY of other opportunities for that." I am really trying to make him happy and in effect, make myself happy. I still struggle with all the feelings of entitlement and expectations. Whatever happened to being "treated like a queen"? It seems that as girls we are sort of taught this. I think I personally always had very reasonable expectations about Valentine's Day, chivalry, helping around the house, so I always thought I was not asking too much. I still get irritated if I think too hard about where we were at when he did his little email fling. I came on here to write a little bit to get myself ready for an individual counseling session tonight. The counselor has basically said she'll do whatever we want, but thinks maybe we will accomplish more alone, since we seem to be going into all this he said/she said, rehashing fights since the last visit, trying to prove we're right.

Thanks for reading along!

Hey all,

Things have been much better, but H had an individual session Monday and things have been tense ever since. Today, I told him I was tired of walking on eggshells. He sarcastically said he didn't think I was. Here is an email I sent to a few girlfriends asking for support. Just a way for me to summarize. Thanks, everyone. Is there an end to this??


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I need some support. I don't know what exactly to say except that Joey is putting me through the ringer again and I about can't take anymore. A simple phone call turned into a big discussion. I said I was tired of walking on eggshells since his individual session Monday night. He sarcastically stated that he didn't think I was and it went up from there.

I asked him how it was ok when we went to Peru, got married, had our children, etc. And he hung up on me. He called back to say not to ever talk to him at work (not my intent, I told him) and he would hang up on me every time if I tried. I was completely calm the whole time. He said the "answer to my question was that he shouldn't have." He says I dumped him, cheated on him and only thought about myself and he was sitting there like a chump to take me back and he shouldn't have, so now he has to rectify that with himself. I said yes, you do. He sarcastically said, "Don't back me into a corner, if you're gonna push me, that's what I'll have to do!" I said, "How am I pushing you? You should be proud to have me for a wife." He said, "I'd be a lot more proud to have you for my wife if you hadn't done what you did. You had your fun - you got exactly what you wanted and didn't give a [censored] about me."

He hung up on me shortly after. I expect tonight will be a real delight.

Please give me some positive words. I'm just trying not to cry around my kids and don't know what to do anymore.

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Here's the latest from him.

This was spawned from me interrupting him when he said I "dumped him and cheated on him" and I interrupted him and said, "I broke up with you because I thought it was the best thing and I stuck by my guns, because I thought it was the best thing. I won't let you call it cheating." That's when he hung up on me the second time.


Ok, so I have decided that we are broken up as of now. You don't get any say in the matter, it's just what I think is best for us/me. So if I go out and [censored] someone, I guess it won't be cheating since we are broken up. Right? Convenient. Don't call me at work and bring up this [censored]. I am working and can't be bother to deal with this [censored]. If you want to help fix things, don't put all the blame on me and [censored] step up and accept your contributions to this whole [censored] pile. Don't pawn off the counseling on me 'cause I'm the only one who needs it. Don't email me.




He would be so furious if he knew I was sharing this stuff with you guys, but I am feeling so ... helpless, I don't know what to say or do anymore.

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Here is what I replied to him.

I did not call you to discuss this. I called you to fill you in on our 4-year old chewing on furniture. Then you shared with me a personal matter - the tattoo artist emailing you. When I asked if it was a positive or negative email, you treated me like an ignorant piece of [censored]. I accepted your cold attitude Mon and Tue, but simply told you I did not appreciate having to walk on eggshells. I even said "That is all I have to say." YOU continued the conversation. Quit rewriting scenarios to support your side of things.



One last bit of info. He said that in the session, the therapist asked him lots of details about the past. She then tried to get him to see things from my side of the situation, i.e. my mom was not around, my dad was preoccupied with his new girlfriend, I had self-esteem issues, etc. He said he stopped her and said he saw what she was trying to do, but he had no sympathy. He didn't care what the "reasons" were.

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He writes:
If you remember, you called me back to specifically discuss this [censored]. Don't email me at work!

I honestly don't know what to tell you, hon. I just know what worked (I guess) for me when my H was deadset on getting a D was to just act "as if" nothing was wrong / nothing was going on. It's hard & it sucks, but I just don't know what else for you to do at this point.

It doesn't seem as if he is even trying to "get over" the past and just stews about it -- it almost seems like he's using it as an excuse to cause problems in your M.

The only thing I know to advise is for you to just go about your business like nothing's wrong. I don't know if that will work or not. But, obviously, it doesn't seem like you trying to talk to him about anything works either -- he just gets mad.

I'm sorry that he seems to be just dragging this thing out. I just don't understand why all of a sudden he is making it such an issue and having such a huge problem with it. Any ideas on that?