I'm 33, my W is 32, S 9, and D 4. We've been M 10 years, but were highschool sweethearts (had a 1-year breakup during college times). So, basically, we've known each other a long time, a lot of water under the bridge, etc.
1st bomb occurred 10/01 and second bomb on 10/02. The 1st bomb was the "I love you, but not in love" talk where she told me that she's been unhappy for a long time--unhappy with our M, unhappy with being a mother, regrets that she didn't do all those things she should have when she was younger. We got M too young, had kids too young, need a separation...we all know the drill. After the first bomb my W was very much in the alien phase, and I didn't recognize her (this has since gotten better). During this time she explored different things about herself, however. Bought some books, went out a lot, did some soul searching, but did not really implement anything she read. It was the difference between talking about doing this and that to make her happy and not actually doing what needed to be done. All talk and no action.
2nd bomb was 10/02. Pretty much the same conversation, but she concentrated more on the M being a failure than the children so much. She was more determined to S this time. The idea was to see if her feelings would change...the same sentiment as the first bomb. After an absolutely brutal weekend of me getting ticked off, getting sad, etc., and her finally talking to her parents, she decided to stick it out a little longer and not S.
It was after this second incident I found DR. Up until getting DR I acted like a whiner--pressuring, getting angry, etc., and didn't take responsibility for my half of the M. So now it's been about three months of DBing.
Now, I'll call this the third bomb, although it's a good bomb...I think... I found out in 12/02 that my W had an A. This A, if I can properly date it from the information I've gathered, lasted from 12/01 to 9/02. I have suspected for some time (and explains much of her behavior), but it still hit me like a piano out of a five-story apartment building. I found out only two weeks ago, so I'm still trying to deal with all the pain that goes along with this wonderful revelation. But after this bomb my W is suddenly acting more like her old self (kind of...still a WAS). It's messing with my brain and I'm trying to figure out what to do exactly. One day she thinks things will work out and next day, she has HUGE doubts. As such, her behavior changes from day to day, and it's hard for me to gauge it. She's fully cognizant of her vacillations, hence the name of this thread. I had a very interesting past couple of days, which I am going to post next.
Okay, interesting two days. I'm going to demonstrate my W's vacillations by splitting my post into two parts: Last night and this morning.
LAST NIGHT So, my W and I went on a double date last night with my sister and BIL. We had a good time...dinner and a movie. But, most of yesterday and the night I was haunted by the A still. I know, not healthy, but it was there. I think it's because the reality of it finally hit me on Thursday.
In any case, over the evening I began to feel better. So, after the movie, we decided to come back to our place and play some games. We are driving separately and as I'm pulling into our garage, OUR song comes on the radio ("Heaven" by Brian Adams). We sat in the garage for a moment, looking at each other, and had some very sweet kisses. Then my sister and BIL came up the driveway and ruined the moment. Oh...well...
So, we get inside and my sister had just finished putting a photo album together of the past couple years and wanted to show us. Well, guess who was in the photo album? Yes, you're right, the OM. I crashed...but didn't show it to my sister and BIL. You see, I never knew what he really looked like, but now I know. Because my sister and W frequent this karaoke bar, she had taken a couple of pictures from her nights out there...and that's how HE got in the album.
So, I wasn't happy and did my best to play games. Of course, my W knew and couldn't look me in the face. My sister and BIL leave and she tries to hug me and tell me that seeing a picture should "not set us back," and "what does it matter." I kind of went off then because isn't very attractive and my W is very attractive. So, I said, "you stepped outside of our M for him?!?! HIM?!?!" She said, "Oh, he's lost 35 pounds since that picture and looks a lot better now." I'm think, great that's just what I want to hear. She's getting it on with some overweight 47 year old and she's 32 (no offense to those of you who are older)!!! Ugh! (I know, guys, not healthy)
Also, the picture was one of the OM and his 4 year-old daughter (he's also D). So, now I'm thinking, "great, you're D and look what a great dad you are, and by the way, thanks for f--king up my M and my family!" Jerk. I said this to my W in a different way and she kept saying it was her fault too. So, at least she takes ownership.
Guys, this is the first time I really went off. I hadn't done it yet. Got upset a couple times, but last night I slightly raised my voice. Wasn't happy with myself.
We go upstairs and get into bed. To make what's already too long of a story, shorter, she told me the following phrases last night: - "Just because you saw this picture, we should not be set back." - "We WILL work it out." - "I'm so sorry...I wish I could erase everything that happened." - "I feel so incredibly selfish." - (I told her I felt badly that I got angry.) "You have every right to get angry. You've been such a saint through all of this."
Mostly, she was very sweet and understanding, we hugged a lot, and I actually felt closer to her and that we worked through some crap. Now this morning.
THIS MORNING So, we wake up and she asked if I felt better. I replied in the affirmative. Within a few minutes, she said, "I'm feeling very anxious. I need to go for a walk." So off she went...and I was left feeling kind of like, huh? My assumption was that it was guilt. Wrong.
So, she gets back and I asked if she was okay. She's seemingly very distant at this point. Now she makes the following remarks: - "I'm feeling pressured." - "I told you I'd work on things, but I sometimes wonder if everything will work out." - "You have a lot of the qualities I see in both my parents and you feel like another parent to me. I have to understand why I M you." (see, it's still the ILY, but not ILWY thing) - "I need to figure out why I did things in the past to understand today." (this bugs me because she's more focused on the past and not today) - "I'm trying to 'speak' to your love language, but you don't seem to notice that I'm trying." (ohh...I notice) - "I will read what you want me to read." - "I wish I could have some time to myself to clear all of the cobwebs. But I can't uproot the kids. If it weren't for them..." - "I was just trying to comfort you last night. But I still need to work out my own stuff." - "I've always felt very responsible for your feelings."
There was a bit more, but I think I've quoted enough. Unfortunately, I was a bit defensive at first and wasn't too validating, but I backed off as the conversation continued. She's in WAW mode right now, so I know to cool it. We were going to work out together this morning, but I told her to go ahead, as I thought she needed the space. She took me up on it.
MY THOUGHTS Am I pushing her too hard? Yes, I realize this now. I am projecting unrealistic expectations and I think, pushing her further away. LL, it's kind of like you and your sitch. You were so upset with your H the first month that you ended up pushing him away.
Did you guys warn me? Yes. Did I think my sitch was somewhat different? Yes (stupidly). Am I going to continue pushing/projecting? Hell no.
So, what I've realized (duh) is that she is vacillating wildly on our situation. Sometimes she is feeling pretty good and othertimes, she's not. I guess the solution for me is to really back off and give her some space. I won't push the book thing too much even though she says she's willing. I've suggested having R talks one evening a week where we can go over some of the exercises in the books. But mostly, I need to work on myself. Because, honest to God, when it comes down to it, I don't know if this is going to work out. I feel less hopeful that it will, but I have to give it a try while working on improving myself. There's simply no other way. I actually feel okay with it and am not feeling too sorry for myself. If she won't give me a real R, then I will find someone that will eventually. For now, however, I need to be patient and understanding, validating and not pushing, and keep DBing my a$$ off!
the thing you have to keep reminding yourself of and this is very important so pay close attention here... you are both human!!
just like you have good days and bad days regarding the sit, jsut like sometimes you feel that you can and will get through this and the a wont be an ever looming downer, that all can be well but at times you feel like it may be easier for you to run? your w too has good days and bad. probably facing the same questions, can we get past this, can he get past this, can I live with myself knowing I've done this to him etc..
give it time. take it one day at a time, I know this is not easy, but that is why we are here to let you know that you can do it and that you are certainly not alone in what you are going through!
Just came by to second that nomination for sainthood! Wow, you have been through a lot in the last few days. It's the roller coaster. Don't lose hope, it's so early yet.
Every time I read your posts, things jump out at me. They are always good signs, and unfortunately I see them because they are things that have gone differently for me. I like to point them out because you may think they are insignificant, but I don't think they are.
Anyway, in this post, you talked about "your" song coming on, and you sat in the garage, looked at each other and kissed. Pay more attention to these things than you do to what she says when she's in alien-mode. It would be hard for her to pretend that your song means a lot to her if it didn't.
I am so glad they never play our song on the radio! But if they did and H was with me, I know he would either say nothing, or change the station! Before he left and we drove by the little house we lived in when we were first married, I said "remember that little green house?" and he said "no." Nice, huh? So anyway, I digress. Just to point out how hopeful your sit looks from this angle!
You are on a hugh roller coaster...give her the space..whatever that may end up being..my h talked for several months about maybe leaving..I tried everything I could to make it all better here...walk on eggshells...don't talk about r..well that only seemed to make it worse and the bottom line was he was not going to move forward until he was able to leave...it has been 2 months yesterday...things are less tense...we do things together...have not had any r talks, but he told our kids this does not mean d...just that he needs to "find himself"who knows what the future holds...but do let her go if that is what she really think she needs..come here to vent...keep doing positive things for you.By the way the "older" thing is ok I am 47, it's not quite over the hill!! Sue
Well. I cant believe you are 32 (like me). I thought you were older. Ok sounds like you have handled it. Just a couple of points.
Slow down. Her saying she wants to work on the M is a double edge sword. You are right about pushing. Her body might be back but her mind is wavering.
Quote:
But mostly, I need to work on myself. Because, honest to God, when it comes down to it, I don't know if this is going to work out. I feel less hopeful that it will, but I have to give it a try while working on improving myself. There's simply no other way. I actually feel okay with it and am not feeling too sorry for myself. If she won't give me a real R, then I will find someone that will eventually. For now, however, I need to be patient and understanding, validating and not pushing, and keep DBing my a$$ off!
I know you feel less hopeful but that may change w/tomorrow. I feel the same way that I need to work on myself. So if I end up moving on that I will have the R that want. Hopefully finding a person w/the same goal will happen too. You never know it could be our Ss.
I know I have more to say but there has been alot to digest so I think I will ponder this for awhile. Take care.Abby
As long as we're talking about "our" songs. About a week after my W dropped the bomb, I went to a football game. It was the first real thing I did after moping around and being a basket case. It took my attention off of things, and was turning into a good night. As we left the stadium, there was a sax player outside, playing "our" song. It took every bit of self control I had not to burst into tears. Luckily, I haven't heard it since.
Jim
I know God won't give me anything I can't handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much.
LL, RJJ, Hoping, Abby, and Jim...thanks for your insights... Yes it's been an interesting couple of days, but I'm feeling like I'm not stuck in a rut anymore (at least, as much of a rut).
Quoting LL:that all can be well but at times you feel like it may be easier for you to run?
I know this is not easy, but that is why we are here to let you know that you can do it and that you are certainly not alone in what you are going through!
Yes, sometimes it seems much easier to run. But how could I live with myself doing this to my kids? And believe me, LL, I'm so very thankful I have everyone here to offer support. Don't know what I'd do without it...
Quoting RJJ:Anyway, in this post, you talked about "your" song coming on, and you sat in the garage, looked at each other and kissed. Pay more attention to these things than you do to what she says when she's in alien-mode. It would be hard for her to pretend that your song means a lot to her if it didn't.
Thanks, RJJ. I'll try and remember the good stuff when she's a flailing alien. I find that I can detach a bit better these days (at least, as of yesterday). It was wierd...I kind of got my head straight when she started going hard core alien on me. I found comfort in that...
Quoting RJJ:Before he left and we drove by the little house we lived in when we were first married, I said "remember that little green house?" and he said "no." Nice, huh?
Quoting hoping:You are on a hugh roller coaster...give her the space..whatever that may end up being.
Thanks for coming by, hoping. I appreciate the visit. Agreed that I need to give her space--whatever that may be. Yesterday she told me she wanted to go off on a mini vacation by herself, somewhere over night...spend some time by herself. I didn't really say anything, but she asked, "Do you trust me?" Well, I don't really, but I said, "Do I have a choice?" I know, maybe not the best response, but I'm not going to lie and say that I trust her. Jeez...I have no idea how many times I've been lied to over the last year. Countless times to be sure. Oh well, what's done is done...
Quoting Abby:I thought you were older.
I get that a lot. Not sure what to make of it. Mature or anal retentive?
Quoting Abby:Her body might be back but her mind is wavering.
Well, her body has always been back. I think you are making reference to my thread title, "...WAW Come Home." She's always been home. I was just speaking figuratively because she's more "mentally" home than she has been in a while. Nonetheless, she has not "come home" as much as I'd like. Patience...
Quoting Jim:As long as we're talking about "our" songs.
You know, Jim, when you, your bro, and I went out for beers a few weeks ago, I heard the song in the bar...just didn't say anything. If you remember, that was the night I really realized that my W's EA was a PA...she just hadn't fessed up yet.
So, guys, yesterday actually went pretty well. The W was in full alien mode, but I felt very grounded. I almost handle myself better when she distances from me. Go figure. In any case, she wanted to flee, so I did what I could to help her feel more comfortable. She was going to fix dinner, but I offered to do it while she could hide up in our bedroom for a while. When I offered this, she said, "You read my mind." WOW! Chock up one point for jethro.
I was very mellow, gave her the space she needed, etc. It's amazing what can happen when pressure is released. She said to me that she "feels like such a bitch," and that she's "so messed up," etc. She was a little short with the kids and it came out that she feels overwhelmed with having to take care of the kids (notice how it was the kids and I wasn't included...I think this was because I was NOT pressuring and being understanding). This is very important for me to remember.
I heard "our" song on radio a few weeks after I had moved out. I lost it as you all probably can imagine.
The worst thing is that "our" song is "It's Time for Me to Fly" by REO speedwagon. It was a joke of mine while we were dating and it eventually became our song. I had it cued up in the car so that when we left the church to go to the reception from our wedding, it would start playing.
Anyway, hang in there Jethro. You are having a hard time with this and I completely understand that. You know now that it was hurting your W to have to put up with it all of the time. You might have to go for the Mr. Universe title afterall.
FLoyd The grass is always GREENER over the septic tank.
WOW, Jethro, You really had alot going on last weekend! ... and I'm glad to see that you feel you have landed on your feet. Your self-assessments are right in line and you are getting some good advise here as well. Now its time to put it into practice ... As Nike says, "Just do it!"
I can relate to vacillations. For what went on for at least three months, my W had an almost predicable weekly pattern of fluctuating between being kind and affectionate (seemingly being drawn back) versus distant and cold (and drifting further away). In order to detach, the key for me was to drop any kind of expectation of her what-so-ever. In order to avoid a mind trip, I literally took 100% stock in what Michelle stated in her book about "Believe in none of what they say, and only half in what they do.", so that I can remain standing on the balance beam while she teetered back and forth. I approached each day by acting "as-if" it would be a good day in which my wife would want to share with me. If I was met with indifference by her, I would continue my acting "as-if" in hopes that it might influence her mood. Sometimes this worked, however, when it became apparent that was disinterested in my company, I would back off to give her space and revert my attention elsewhere (usually in finding something to do with my DD.) to keep my mind from wondering about her mood, constantly repeating to myself that she has to take the time to deal with her issues in order to work past them if she was ever going to fully return to M.
Basically, I learned to let her call the shots ... when she was affectionate, I made sure she had 100% of my attention ... when she wanted to talk, I made sure I listened to 100% of what she had to say and kept my opinions to myself for another time (if ever...) ... when she didn't want to be bothered, I took it literally with physical distance ... when I focus on spending time with DD, I always made it known she was welcome to join in if she wanted to, but it was also OK if she didn't ... and when I decided I would enjoy doing something for myself, she was invited (despite her bad mood) but if she declined, I would politely excuse myself and do it anyway.
Somewhere in this, Jethro, I hope maybe you might find something in which would help you detach from your W's vacillations.
Then my sister and BIL came up the driveway and ruined the moment. Oh...well... 
(see, it's still the ILY, but not ILWY thing)
Ok sounds like you have handled it. Just a couple of points. 
