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I call home to let her know I have arranged a ride to D11's game. I ask how her day is going, how workout went, just light chatting. W is being very quiet, hardly answering. I start to wonder if everything is okay, physically. W sounds very strange.

I try not to, but I finally ask, are you okay? W says sure, why? I told her she sounded very quiet, almost like she was nodding off. W says, "its a lot to think about".

A part of me wanted to chase that rabbit, but the part of me that is getting better at this just said, Yup, gotta go, talk to you later.

A great big chunk of me wants to hope that W is waffling on the S/D. That she is reconsidering and maybe will want to give it one last try. Honestly, if she were willing to give it one more try like she has in the past, within a few months she would see that the changes are legit.

Yet another part of me thinks that W is simply discouraged that it won't be as easy as she hoped it would be, but she is still determined to go through with it. That the only thing she was thinking about was how to make it work on her own.

I don't know. I'm not a mind reader but I wish I was.

tyler,

This is good. And good for you for knowing it was time to get off the phone.

Don't worry about the mind reading. I learned that as scary as ambiquity is on their part, it was a good thing. KEEP living those changes you've made in you for YOU. I'd put a little distance if you can - this will remind her that she is "losing" her fall back as you tread on with your life. Be there if she is a disaster of course - but remember to AA....

And did you learn anything about waking a sleeping lion?

Good luck,


Sven

Thanks Sven, I kind of thought it was a good thing. At least she is back to thinking about it, the whole lot of it, rather than just thinking how much better life will be once she can get the D pushed through. Again, if that was at all part of the "lot" that she had to think about.

Definitely heeding your advice re; living the changes. It actually feels better as each day goes by. Not that there aren't moments, but overall, I'm starting to feel really positive as a state of being rather than a state of doing.., if that makes sense.

I thought some more about the waking her incident. I probably wouldn't have been happy about being awakened at midnight either, not if it was something she could just handle. Add in the history there and I set myself up for a fall on that one for sure.

Thanks again, last night I took my girls swimming at the Y, tonight I'm off to softball games and a great night with my kiddies. What a great life.

Got a few moments here. It's hard to post from home as the computer is in a common area and W has taken to walking by pretty frequently while looking at the computer when I'm on.

Got home and it was more of that quiet, distant mood thing. She was cleaning. I hung out with the kiddies for a bit. Softball was cancelled due to rain. We decided to go get some dinner. W was laying on the floor in D9s room, listening to a CD. Like some sort of teen caught up in great angst. WTF? Thankfully I have a handle on things. I'm feeling great and I'm not about to be caught up in whatever is going on with her.

I went about getting the kiddies ready and let her know we were leaving soon, you can go if you'd like. W decides to go and she is actually pretty pleasant. Came home and got the youngest girls in the tub. W went to pick up a few things for school projects that are due tomorrow, of course.

Not to be totally insulting to the female membership here but I think I saw a box or two of feminine products in the bags she brought in from the store earlier. If so, it's that time of the month or real close. This might explain her mood. The last few years PMS type stuff has been really bad. She was never like that before, just over the last few years the headaches and tension around this time has really reached a new height. With that in mind, I'm really going to lay low and stay out of the way.

Some days I feel like I'm in a daze. When I was a competitive athlete I was given a great book by my coach, Mental Toughness Training for Sports, by Dr. James Loehr. The biggest lesson I took away from that book was to always look for the humor, the bright side in any situation. For example, in my sports, (MMA, kickboxing, submission wrestling/grappling), I might find myself in a bad situation, one of the things I would love to do was lock eyes with a spectator and yell to them, "call an ambulance for me" or something to that effect. Most of the time my competitor would laugh as well.

In my mind I was simply acknowledging that yes, this sucks, but it could be worse, at least I can still joke around. That doesn't mean I wasn't serious, or fiercely competitive. Just I wasn't going to take this momentarily bad position too serious.

So yeah, what's the point?

I don't know. I'm just trying to keep my head up here. I'm bleeding everywhere, my head hurts bad and I think if I just close my eyes, it will all go away. I could probably live with knowing I quit, gave up. Maybe. I don't know. I've lost before, who plays any sport and never loses? So I know I can lose and 99% of the time the loss just makes me work harder for the next challenge.

Last night went okay. W was okay, but I can tell she is on edge, what edge that might be I couldn't say. She seems to bounce between rage and breaking. If that makes sense. Is that the hormonal upheaval happening right now or everything else or a combination? Man, I don't know. I feel bad for her though. She is clearly in a lot of turmoil. She wants to leave but there is a lot at stake, and the reality is, financially we will be sunk at this point if this happens. Additionally, the issues surrounding the kids and everything else make this about more than two adults that can't find a way so part ways.

This morning I gave her a hug and kiss good morning. We were in our room, getting ready for the day. As I was hugging her, I jokingly picked her up and started to walk towards the bed. She said, "we can't". I thought, I know that, the youngest Ds have to be out the door in 20 minutes and the oldest 2 leave about 15 minutes after that. Not to mention that I have to leave like 10 minutes ago. I said I know and put her down. She walks to the bedroom door and stops, looking at the ground and shaking her head. I keep getting dressed and she says, "I, we just can't, it's complicated".

In the past I would have pursued this. What does that mean? What is complicated? Today I did a lot better. I just said, yup and kept getting dressed. She went downstairs to help the kids and I finished getting ready for work. She was cooking breakfast, asked if I wanted a plate to take with me for the drive. Any effort from her I receive so I accepted the plate. Here is where I messed up to some degree. Not that it led into anything but I did something out of habit, almost 20 years worth of habit. I asked her what she was thinking about. Now, this is something I just do. If I see a friend or family member looking like something is on their mind, I'll ask them what they are thinking, and let them know they can talk with me when/if they feel like it.

I'm learning that although this is something I think let's people know I care, sometimes people just need to be still. Allowing someone to just BE, without it being an issue shows that you care just as much.

Back to the close call. I ask stupidly, 'what are you thinking about?' Fortunately she says, "nothing". See, I already realized as soon as the words were starting to come out, that I didn't want to go there. This could possibly be a tempature check/R talk situation. NO THANKS. I start to turn away with my food and she says, "what are you thinking?". I was caught flat footed, she hasn't asked me anything like that in a year or more. She could care less what I'm thinking or how my day has gone or anything of that nature. Shoot, she can't even say, God Bless You when I sneeze. Everybody else sneezes she is passing out God Bless Yous like she is the Pope. I sneeze and she becomes an atheist. Now, I'm caught flat footed and I could seriously kick myself in the butt for what came next, stupid, stupid, stupid.

I say, pathetically, "I wish I knew what you were thinking?"

Was that honest? Sure. I get paid in a few days. School is out in 2 weeks. I need to do one of two things this pay period; 1) buy a 2nd vehicle, my car is kaput or, 2) put a security deposit down on an apartmtent. Either way, I can't do both. Her deadline is/was, when the kids get out of school, we need to separate.

I know I shouldn't have gone there. Why pursue? Why ask a question when I don't really want to hear the answer?

Fortunately, before she could answer, (and I could see her gearing up to answer), I man'd the f up and said, 'gotta run, see ya'. Quick hug and peck and I was off like a prom dress.

She called a bit later as I was driving to give me a number for the owner of a car we looked at. Again I bit my tongue, I really wanted to say, "look, I need to know what the heck is going on. I only have so much coming in right now, and I have to choose between a car purchase or a security deposit.., what's it going to be?"

Instead, I told her I was still driving, couldn't write at the moment so call back and leave the number on VM.


So there you have it. "It's a lot to think about" and "...it's complicated".

Thank God for this forum and the contacts I've made through here. I made the mistake of talking to my brother a few days ago. He asked how things were going and I made the mistake of opening up. Not that he is bad, it's just more of the sympathetic shoulder mentioned in DR. Friends just want to see you out of the pain. I said to him almost exactly what she said to me. Bro asked me, "what are you going to do?" I said, 'I don't know, I want to stay, I want to make it work but it's complicated'. Bro says, "no it's not, screw that, its real simple. Here is your check, its 50% of my paycheck, carry on. Then log on to adult friend finder and start having some fun".

Jesus help me. Did I mention he is a former jarhead.

Tyler

As much as we like to vent, sometimes we don't choose the best people to vent to. Give the guy a break, he's your brother and only wants the best for you, he wants you to be happy.

Ok, so why is it YOU that has to put the security deposit down? If she is the one that is wanting the separation, should it be her? Based on that analogy, get the car!

tyler,

I'm with Heywyre - I can tell you my brother acted a little similar. Of course, he was a WAH and he was trying in his own way to make me aware that no matter what, I would be okay.

I think you handled this AM well - and old habits do die hard so don't beat yourself up too much. The key here is you recognized what was going on and were able to recover. I'm sure the lot on your W's mind is that the two week "end of the line" marker is coming. Best really now to stand back and let her own that.

What would you think if you just let her stew for a couple weeks - live your changes and live life with as much tenacity and vigor and then the day after the kids get out of school say to her "well, here we are. Look, I know you have tried as hard as you can and as much as I want to stay married, I accept that you do not and am letting you go."

This might be over the top so I was hesitant to write it - but I only know from my own experience that I needed to do this. There was no incentive for my W to make a decision and so I made it for her. It was in that moment she began to REALLY understand what she was losing - that the bus was leaving....

Just some thoughts...

Sven

True enough regarding my bro. I have chosen to be very careful who I talk to, if anyone. In the case with him, he is insane in a fun, 12 years as a Anglico Marine kind of way. Want to bungee off a bridge, go rappeling, kayaking or anything else that might kill you? He is up for it if he hasn't already been doing it since 6AM, waiting on you to show up. When it comes to family, domesticated stuff? Forget about it. Literally, that is his answer. Some of his exact words are, "women are like a bus, another one will be along here in a few minutes". I have mentioned in previous posts the conversations with MIL, SIL & FIL. All were/are convinced she is nuts and has no idea what she wants or is in for should this go through. At first it felt good to get that validation from someone that one would think would be on her side. Now I see it as dangerous territory and I steer the conversation away as soon as it starts to go there.

Regarding the separation/car decision. You're right. Why am I sweating it? I don't know. It's her choice to pursue this,if she does. So let her figure it out.

One thing Chuck recommended was to have a few apartments that I had looked at, just to show a 180 in this area. My gut instinct is to tell her I'm staying until I get a court order that says I have to leave. When the original separation conversation happened I told her, "you can't stand there and in good faith tell me that they, (the kids), won't be affected. That this won't do some harm to them. That me seeing them on weekends or a few times a week will possibly be the same as what I have with them now". Her response was, I should have thought of that during the years I was messing up, and it will be hard but they will be okay.

Now, for me to take the steps to make it possible for me to leave would be a 180, given how often I have said I'm not leaving, we should not separate and it will hurt the kids.

How do we get end up in such a mess?

Wow. That is a lot to think about. Yeah man, I have no idea where that would go. One side of me thinks she would be ecstatic. Maybe a little scared just due to finances and by her own admission, because she wants this she will be the bad guy to the kids. She does believe that when they are older they will understand.

Yeah, that is something to think about. Live right out on the edge..., and then jump.

Hey, I like that one!! That should shock her into reality.

I know it scared the living crap out of me when I knew I had to stop running in circles and let go. I had heard for too many weeks and months "if we aren't together down the road" from him that one day I snapped and I said "ok, if that is what you want, let's get to it right here and now". The look on his face was one of shock. I calmly took all the financial papers (that he usually handles) and he said "what are you doing?". I said, "sorting things out to see what each of us will be responsible for paying."

I went upstairs and I am sure he didn't think I was doing anything but I came down about 20 minutes later and said "here you go, this is basically your portion, anything extra such as food and personal items will be your responsibility". He was stunned. I had never, ever done anything like that before. He kinda gave a nervous laugh as if he thought I was kidding, but he quickly realized I wasn't.

He took one look at the paper and said "I can't afford this". My response - "that's not my problem".

He then started talking about having to get roommates etc. and I totally didn't respond, and he started to sweat - literally.

What brought this to a head was the fact he wasn't being open and honest with me and I had enough.

He immediately began to back down, reluctantly said he would give me cell and visa bills and told me he didn't want to separate and wanted to work on our M.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to push him to the edge of the cliff but I did, and it worked.

Since that time, things have been going along pretty good. Not perfect, but we're working on that - lol

I know we have a long road ahead of us but sometimes you just have to stand your ground