SIL calls and wants to fill me in on her conversation with W.
I'm being very careful of this stuff, third party interference good or bad is a negative.
SIL tells me that W has been talking with our pastors wife, quasi counseling. PW told W to give herself to me as a sacrifice unto the Lord, do it for God and let God take care of her type thing. That I am still her husband, still taking care of my responsibilities and such. SIL asked W what she thought of this and W said, she can try but that I take any kind of giving as hope and W just doesn't feel that way. She gets so anxious, desperate feeling and can't imagine herself one more minute in this situation. W also told PW that she doesn't want to be this way with me and wishes PW knew her longer so PW could see just how against W's nature it is to be this cold to me.
SIL asked me what I thought, what does this mean? Now, to be fair, SIL thinks the D my W wants is a big mistake and W has no idea what W is getting into. That life after the D is hard, a lot harder than W can imagine. SIL went through a D last year. At the time SIL even said, it will be hard for a little while. A year later SIL says, I didn't know it would be this hard for this long. Her perspective has changed dramatically.
Even so, I told SIL, that it's obviously a conversation between W and PW that she shared with SIL. I don't want to take too much from it as I wasn't directly involved so I don't know what was really said by PW or W. I left it at that, and changed the subject.
I think this is almost hopeful, maybe. I don't know.
What I do know is I have a S14 and one of his buddies waiting for me outside by our basketball rim. It's time to open a can on them. I'm going for 3s all night, nothing but net.
I think the real test will be if she tries to be intimate. SIL hinted that this was one of the things PW told W. That not connecting in that way would only make things worse.
At this point, I don't know if I want to go there if I know she is doing it because she thinks she has too. That is just more resentment for me to deal with later.
You're right though, I really have to focus on not believing anything I hear and only 1/2 of what I see.
Well, I doubt I have to be concerned with anything tonight, tomorrow or probably until Monday.
She called a few moments ago. She went to her sisters after practice to get her nails done, from there they are going to a club. She won't get home until whenever..., again.
W gets home last night around 1:30ish. She was in a good mood, washing her face and getting ready for bed. She came into our room and turns a CD on. All I could think is, you've got to be kidding me. I have to get up for work in a few hours. I figure I'll go downstairs and sleep on the couch. Let her have some space to chill or whatever it is she is doing. As I get to the end of the bed, she meets me there and says, "where are you going?". I didn't want to fight, she didn't appear to have been drinking, (she's not a big drinker generally), but I didn't want to get into any type of confrontation. I just wanted to get back to sleep as I had just dozed off after my last post. I told her I was going downstairs to get a drink. By that point, I was at the door. W says, "we can do 'stuff'". I looked at her and said, 'I know you don't want to, its okay'. I opened the door and walked out. She called my name as I was closing the door, I didn't want to get into a big thing, no drama, this wasn't about manipulation. I had thought about it and realized, if I had asked a friend for a ride somewhere and they indicated that it was something they couldn't really do for me, but would if I really needed them to...., I would probably call someone else. I wouldn't harbor any ill towards them. It's just something they can't do right now, doesn't mean they won't in the future, just not now.
If W is my best friend, doesn't the same thought process apply? I wouldn't want my best friend to do something for me that is going to put them out. I wouldn't want to put them in that position. It can't be a good thing and who knows, it might even cause them to think I'm taking advantage of them or that I don't mind putting them out.
I don't know, was/am I wrong?
I have to tell you, one side of me really wanted to take her up on the offer, it's been 3 weeks and I'm definitely a high drive type. It was a for sure 180. I just hope she didn't take it as manipulation.
Back to me standing at the door and W calling my name, to wait a minute. Before she could say anything, and the only thing I wanted to say if anything was what I posted above. I was going to give the edited version, "listen, I accept your feelings of not wanting to do anything, they are valid and I don't believe punitive. It's just where you are as a result of my actions. I would probably feel the same way. It's cool. I'm going to get a drink, we have to get up early with the kids, so let's just get some sleep." Hopefully escaping any blowout, at least from my end. I'm dropping the rope, no war from this end. Additionally, I think SIL dropping a hint my way helped my resolve to follow through on waiting. If the motivation is to be physical with me because PW recommends that W do this as a effort and sacrifice unto God..., isn't that still pressure? And won't any fallout from that be directed towards me? No thanks.
We didn't get a chance to say anything as my D5 bedroom door opens and guess who is awake needing to go potty? W takes D5 to bathroom and then D5 wants to lie in our bed. W puts her in bed next to her, I go downstairs and get a drink. When I come back to our room, W offers to go lie with D5 in D5's bed. I tell her it's okay, I have enough room and we go to sleep.
This morning, I get up, happy, no acknowledgement re; last night. Just getting on with the day. W comes over while I'm getting dressed, kids are already up and running, W lies down on bed next to me while I'm getting socks, pants on. She doesn't say anything, she's very quiet. I know she is expecting something but I'm not going there. I chalk it up to her having a late night and it's not my problem, it's all hers. I'm humming this cool tune, (even now), don't know who it's by, heard it on my D11's alarm radio, the words are something about "I believe, love is the answer...". Very cool. I get ready and leave the room, W is still lying across the bed. Not even going to go there.
Get downstairs, get everybody breakfast, hang out, laugh with my kiddies. Grateful for another day with them. The minutia, it's awesome and I'm loving it. I think back to when I was 20, wanting to tag every female in a 50 mile radius, young, dumb and full of wilding. To think that almost 20 years later the best part of my day would be hanging with my kids, debating the merits of Fruity Pebbles versus Fruit Loops? God is good.
W comes down, I can tell she is still anticipating something due to how last night went, but I'm just not going there. I'm sincere, genuine and authentic. What I posted, those thoughts are the real ME. I clear the breakfast dishes, get the dishwasher started and walk to the door with the kids, heading out to the bus. I'm feeling great, the kids are having fun. Everything is rolling along. I talk with D11 and D9 about going to the batting cages tonight. W mentions that her sister wants to have a cookout here for mothers day. I tell her I will get the grass cut and yard cleaned up, (I know a neat yard is important to W). We chat some, I'm keeping it light and I can feel her relaxing.
I ask her if she needs a ride to the gym, she says yes. We get everyone out the door to the bus and I give W a ride to the gym. As we are leaving I ask her about a new song I know she was working on, she plays it for me and it's really good. I'm learning to handle that better to. In the past I've tried to show interest in her songs by asking to hear them. When she resists, saying they aren't ready, or she isn't comfortable letting people hear them yet, I would argue that I'm genuinely interested and I don't care if it's a finished product, blah, blah, blah. Thinking I'm being supportive when it was really coming across as PUSHY/PRESSURE. My 180 here was to say, "How is the new song comnig along, are you comfortable letting me hear it yet, or do you want to wait until you're more pleased with how it sounds?" W gave the usual, it's not finished at all, it's just an idea at this point, (all while she walks over and is turning the recording equipment on to play it for me). I repeated, "hey, if you would be more comfortable waiting, that's cool, work on it some more, play it for me later or something". W responded with, "it's just really raw at this point", then hit the play button and played it for me. It really is a good song, she is talented and likes to throw in some subtle but original twists. Really good stuff. I tell her that and after the song is over, she shuts everything down and we go to the car so I can take her to the gym.
I keep it light in the car, I ask how practice went last night and if she is doing lead on anything for Sunday. W says she is, but it's not settled yet as to which song. There are two songs they practiced with her on lead, and they will pick which one to keep in the set today. I tell her that is very cool. By then we are at the gym, she leans over to give me a kiss goodbye. Yesterday and today there has been a little more to her kisses. Am I reading something into it? Maybe.., probably. Who cares. Either way, at least she isn't spitting immediately after and gargling with Listerene. So that is a baby step.
I wish her a good day and a great workout. So that was the morning festivities. Tonight? Who knows. I'm resolute. I like ME. The genuine, authentic ME. I might not get laid at every opportunity. I might not hear an ILY. I will probably go all day without hearing from her. That's alright. I'm still the best friend she could ever have because that's just who I am.
Basically, just sending her the few sentences regarding my thoughts I posted above?
I don't know. Maybe just let it be until she brings it up. It seems like any time I try to clarify something like that, it just causes her to start thinking about everything and that leads us down the path of how much she can't do this and so on.
Things are pretty volatile right now. It seems that everything out of my mouth is perceived as controlling or manipulative. W says that is one of the big issues. No matter how much I change, her feelings haven't changed, the damage is done, too little too late because she still hears/feels things the same way.
How frustrating.
This morning I'm up and running trying to get everyone out the door to D9 & D11 softball games. Its hot and usually at the park its even hotter due to no shade or breeze. I'm looking in my closet for summer stuff, can't find anything. I say to W, I have to clean my closet out, I know I have summer stuff in there its just buried, wearing jeans and a long sleeve polo is going to suck today. W says, it can wait a few more days or weeks can't it? No, its hot and getting hotter, I need my summer stuff. W says well we have a lot to do today besides the running around, to get the house ready for tomorrows dinner. I'm like, okay, I'm thinking I still need some shorts and a lighter shirt.
Then she says, quit trying to scare me, you're just trying to mess with me again and I'm not scared. I just stood there. I asked, (stupidly because I'm still thinking,'I just want shorts and a light shirt since I will be standing outside in 90 degree weather in a dust bowl for the next 4 hours), what are you talking about?
"W said you're just trying to scare me with this moving out crap. It's just more mind games from you, trying to scare me, you know I'm not ready for you to move out yet, I don't have a job, I'm scared I can't keep the house and will have to uproot the kids...., I'm going to look like the bad guy because this is what I want. You're just trying to rush moving out and separating so I get scared".
Then she goes on a rant about how the kids will be okay, one day they will know the whole story about how bad I was to her and then they will be okay with it. How I can give her stats all day about kids not being okay, but it's not 100%, so some kids, maybe even a lot of kids are okay. That she doesn't owe me effort. She doesn't have to try, she has tried for a long time and on and on it went. How numb she is inside. How she doesn't trust me with her emotions, and won't ever. How she can't imagine another minute here, let alone 6 months or a year or whatever time it would take for her to change how she feels.
So I figured, what the hell, lots of folks on here recommend the, "I'm scared too" response so I gave her my honest I'm scared too.
I told her, I'm scared to death of this. I'm scared of missing one moment in the life of my kids. I'm scared to death of what this will do to them, of what they will think of me. And believe it or not, I'm scared of how much it will hurt to miss you. I'm scared of how much its going to hurt to miss all of this, to lose everything. I'm not scared about the money. I've been poor before, big deal. I'm scared of how hard it will be to rebuild. You're scared of losing the house? I'm scared of losing everything because everything is in my name, my credit will be shot and I will have nothing to fall back on as I raided my retirement fund to fix our finances over the last year.
Looking back, the only thing I regret saying was the part about being scared of the pain from losing her. Her response to that was, "I'm sure that won't last long".
I don't know. I wish there were a counsel of WAS's we could consult. Only not as creepy as the one in the movie 300, or at the top of a mountain. Maybe more like a drive-up WAS advice window or something. Although the thought of a naked nymph floating around while we hash this out sounds pretty cool right about now....
Funny thing. I was watching a HBO special about Evangelicals in the USA. There was a segment about a drive-up prayer partner window somewhere in Virginia. You drive-up, like at the bank, she asks what you need prayer for, and a-praying you go.
I last posted Saturday afternoon. As I mentioned we had a borderline R talk..., it was R talk, (I have to accept that anything close to R talk actually is R talk in her mind). In that respect, I backslid a bit, maybe more of a backstep in comparison to some of my backslides.
So I thought todays entry should be, 2 days grace. I put effort into being pleasant, upbeat and to avoid anything that might come close to a hot topic. So far, so good for the last 2 days.
Yesterday, she seemed more open to affection from me. I did make it a point to hug the kids, (mine, + nieces & nephews), often. Our combined families, hers and mine, were over for Mothers Day dinner. Partially this was to make sure W could see that it's just ME. I'm not trying to pressure her or chase her. This is how I am and always have been. I like to love on my family and friends. Nobody should go without a hug, that's just not right, so I make sure I hug, put my hand on their back or my arm around their shoulders. It makes me feel good to. One of my best memories is my great uncles and grandfather always patting me on the head or ruffling my hair as they walked by. They always made sure I knew that they knew I was there and I was one of them, a man. They would call me, little man, tough guy or wildman. Silly as it sounds, when you're 5 or 6, that's like hearing you're the king of the world. A guy you just watched tossing bails of hay that you can't even budge, and he was tossing them like they were paper? That man called YOU a tough guy? I would walk on clouds for hours if not days. I wasn't the equivalent of furniture, seen but not heard. I try to do the same, actually I don't have to try, it's just me. Problems arise when W sees this as something that is only directed at her. W perceives this as pursuit. It has been in the past, when it was focused only on her. No longer. That was me thinking, what is wrong with me, aren't I lovable, diserable and attractive? Now I realize, if she doesn't want a hug, or someone to be kind to her, that is her issue. Yes, I made mistakes, I was terribly wrong in how I treated her. If she wants to continue to dwell there I can't talk her out of it nor can I drag her out of it with just one more hug. Nope. W will have to see that this is the real, genuine, authentic ME, and hopefully that will entice her to come out. Not that W is wrong to withold affection from me, or not desire anything from me. Like I said, I know I messed up. Yet I have to move forward at some point. Even the adultress was told by Jesus to "go and sin no more". You can only stay in condemnation for so long, then you have to get up and move forward, sinning no more.
A friend asked me, "can God stop a bad harvest?" He has ruined his life up to this point through alcohol abuse. I told him that Jesus cursed the fig tree and it died. Maybe we can do the same, this harvest is not good, so die. That's all I could think of at that moment. I thought more about this in relation to my sitch. Can I curse the bad harvest, cause it to stop? I can try. Can I believe that I can harvest from fields I didn't plant, drink from wells I didn't dig? I hope so. I'm planting seeds now that will bring me a good harvest. My relationships with my children, extended family and friends are better than they have been in a long time. It hasn't been easy. Picking the phone up and calling someone you haven't talked to in months or years never is. Asking my S14 if he wants to shoot some hoops, after years of him hearing, "not now I have to get to work", his first few responses were, 'not now'. It took persistance but he came around. We shoot hoops, play soccer and hang out as if nothing was ever missed. I apologized to him a few weeks ago for missing so many of his games. He said it was okay, he knew I was working. I told him it wasn't okay, I should have tried harder. He again told me it was okay and not to worry about it now because it doesn't bother him. I told him that I try to be at everything now and he said, "I know, and you are". That made me feel a little better. He has also been more respectful with his sisters and mother. This is something we talked about. I'm happy to see him working on it.
Positives are happening all around me. Not so much in my R with W, but in all my other R's, good things are happening.
Still haven't reconciled fully with my father. That is a lot for me to work through at the moment. Working through the Field Manual for the Wild at Heart is really helping me get a handle on that and forgive him. His father died when he was 15. He raised himself in a lot of ways. My great-uncles tried to help out, but they were busy with their own families and work. After reading Wild at Heart and working now through the manual, I can see his wound and why he did the things he did to my mother, brother and myself. Someday I'll be able to work on that R, just not right now.
I told him that I try to be at everything now and he said, "I know, and you are". That made me feel a little better. He has also been more respectful with his sisters and mother. This is something we talked about. I'm happy to see him working on it.
Positives are happening all around me. Not so much in my R with W, but in all my other R's, good things are happening.
This is such a big thing, for both of you. I have to agree that regardless of what happens with your W, the rest of it seems to be coming along just fine. Savour the moment.
Another day or so of grace. I'm determined to not disagree. I think it is working as far as keeping the peace goes. At Sven's advice, I'm not agreeing with any type of 'you suck' stuff, but the other issues, re; how she feels, what she wants to do, all that? I agree. Whether she is 100% right or even 50% right doesn't matter, she is right enough that I can say, 'you're probably right' and leave it at that. I've been touching her lightly here and there. On the arm, low back, even her face. She is more relaxed when I hug her and she has been initiating light kisses. On that front, baby steps are better than her former approach which was to run away screaming.
W said that I'm trying to wake her up constantly again. In the past, I wouldn't let it rest. Absolutely, I was wrong that was part of the pursuing, begging and pleading. Last night though, was an honest mistake. W asked if S14 was in bed yet, I told her I would go check on him. He was getting something to drink downstairs, I walked up with him, he went to bed, I went into our room and told W that S14 is in bed. Then I said to her, tomorrow we need to talk about curfew times for him as he wants to stay out until 10 during the summer with his friends. In the middle of this W jumps up in bed and says, "why are you doing this again?, God, can't you see I was asleep, why can't you ever let me sleep?"
I told her, I thought you were awake, just a few moments ago you were awake, I walked downstairs and came back up. I didn't think you would be asleep that fast. Its pitch black in here, how can I know/tell if you are awake or not? W continued on about how I don't let her sleep, more of the same type thing. I told her again that I thought she was awake and we can let it go then, talk about S14 tomorrow, which is what I said originally. I grabbed a workbook I've been studying and walked out. I went downstairs. About 2 hours later, the A/C kicks on and sounds like a freight train is rolling through my basement. I went to check on it, I don't know anything about that stuff. I went upstairs, and this time intentionally woke her to ask if the A/C had been doing this for a while or was this new? W went off. Rightfully so..., maybe. I told her, look this time I knew you were asleep but this is important. I need to know how long this has been doing this, if you noticed it earlier while I was gone. As you can imagine, didn't go so well.
So there I am, until 2AM, washing the A/C filter and hoping I'm not going to blow anything up. Finally got it all put back together and running. Seems to be okay now.
Somedays it just feels like you can't win for losing.
So that is a baby step.
Slowly