Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Can you give me some advice please?

That is perfect, that is what I will do. Yes, I saw as I was typing it that that is how it came across to him. I think I kind of knew at the time, but hadn't stopped and really thought about it. I admit, I was engaging in some "if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander" behavior. He was telling me his page was no big deal basically and when I created mine, I thought, "Will he think that me having a page is no big deal?" I of course do have girlfriends on there but have never felt the need to be a part of that community. Seems like it's for singles and teenagers, from my perspective, everything trying to prove how cool they are. So, a part of me was like, "OK, yes, he wants to sell his art and portray himself as an artist, that is fine and dandy. (This is why he said he made the page "less personal" and only has one photo of me and the kids in there amongst 26 images of him and it was the only one WITHOUT a caption of any kind. It hurt my feelings. I had recently noticed the same thing at his work and said that he has more pictures of seals on his desktop screensaver than he does of his wife.) I thought, "So if *I* have a page, would he allow me to link to his page (be one of his "friends") and then anyone could click on my page and see me and him in all these family pics, changing diapers, baking cookies, etc? I was mad at the way he seemed to be portraying himself as this "goth guy". I know that's probably not healthy to even give a crap about, but it bugged me. So I guess when I made my page, sure, I tried to pick photos that showed me in an attractive light. I do have a sexy side. I may be a mom, but I can look halfway hot on my good days! The whole situation with the past month+ has just been a blow and I feel like I'm grappling a bit for my position. Something to avoid, I know. I still have not asked him to link our pages (as "friends"). I can pretty well guess what he will say, but oh well, I guess I can't do anything about it and making a big deal out of it serves no purpose.

I am SOOO glad that after seeing the naked belly pic was gone that he gave me the passwords. Things usually work like that. When *I* give, he usually is able to give *back*. He is rarely the FIRST one to give though. I am at a place now where I do not intend on dragging him through the mud for the Pam emails. I really want to PUT ALL OF THE PAST BEHIND US. Again, Lin, your post about amnesty and forgiveness sounds REALLY GOOD to me. I HOPE that if I suggest this, that he will take me up on it. Then we can work on building sexual intimacy to a level we are both happy with and resolve our little daily conflicts and miscommunications. (Lots of scorekeeping and grudge holding going on, I know this.)

Thank you!!

Really great news to report.

We are slowly lifting out of the funk! I have been trying to meet him with his sexual needs (my way - not his.)

I will try and post more later when I get time, but I did ask him tonight, "Since things have been better for a day or so, what do you feel is different?" He said he didn't know at first, then said, "We've been getting along and you've shown me that I'm important." I said, "How did I show you you're important?" He said, "sexually". We ML yesterday and I tried to make it fun and adventurous, but nothing we haven't done before really. We actually had a simultaneous O. Then today we had sex twice! I actually got some books from the library on sex and I'm going to try and work on some of my inhibitions. I also told him at one point that I really need for him to recognize when I am trying and reciprocate with my needs as much as he can. I said that that is what will help pull us out of the vicious cycle. He said he knows and he agreed. He has made more efforts to touch me for no reason at all, (not a sexual advance), compliment me, telling me he loves me often, etc. Oh and he obviously is controlling anger and misunderstandings better because we did have some moments of trying to figure out a plan for the day, who should do what around the house, etc. kind of stuff.

So happy and trying to go into Monday's session with a positive heart!

Hi all,

I've updated more with day to day details on my thread over in Newcomers. Please take a look and comment if you have time. I appreciate all input.

I must say I got a BIT of a chip on my shoulder from reading the Success Stories page on this SSM forum. I guess I was hearing all these guys talk about reading the Passionate Marriage, HOPING that their wives would be open to buying a Liberator (we own the wedge/something combo, which I think I initiated after he came to me in the last few years and said he needed things to be spicier.) Yes, I even got a little disgruntled when I heard about a man unloading the dishwasher. How sweet it would be! I am a stay-at-home mom, so it is assumed all of the house stuff is 100% my responsibility. I even take out the trash, sometimes mow the lawn, etc. Our house is not spotless, but it's pretty much all me, unless it's a marathon cleaning session due to people visiting or a party. It seems like my husband complains about our sex life when I personally am not convinced it is so bad. But, his perspective is his perspective. I am trying to respect that. For wanting those pillows so badly, he sure doesn't get them out very often. I have recently suggest he "liberate" me, and I don't think he got around to it. (We probably made love, but he doesn't get out the pillows very often.) I even suggested that he pour some honey on me and lick it off recently, and he never did. Hmmm. Laziness? He is just coming out of this fog (Walk Away Husband? Mid Life Crisis?) where he seems to have only been able to see the negative, rather than the positive.

So I'll go read this book, "How to Set Your Man's Thighs on Fire". lol! I will try to be upbeat when Joey comes home tonight. I may take tonight as "my night" and go see a movie by myself. Tomorrow can be his night, then Thursday, we can have Date Night. He doesn't like the labels of that, but it works for me.

Keep filling those LOVE TANKS and I'll keep reading. Joey has shown appreciation for me meeting him in the middle on some things, I will try to keep that up. ;-) I hope that all of our spouses continue to respond to us in positive ways.

Thanks for reading! It's fun "getting to know" everyone here.

Things seemed good as of last night. I took the evening for myself and will give him some alone time tonight.

I went to the bookstore and looked for some books recommended here (on the Super Success Stories thread). I read most of the Lou Paget book about how to be a great lover. I liked the style and would recommend it for other women. It gave me some good ideas for how to make simple things (like applying lubricant) a sexy act in and of itself. Upon reflecting, I can see that our sex life may not have been too bad in terms of frequency or actual outcome, but I don't do enough to make him feel really GOOD about himself. I am probably a little too brutally honest at times (that tickles, watch your beard, etc.)

I heard about a couple celebrities that do 500 crunches in a day and I said, "I wonder if I can do that." Joey didn't think I could, so I proved him wrong! I spread them out, but I did it! He came and whispered in my ear at one point, "Watching you do this is making me want to f%&# it!" I probably didn't respond as he would like. (I missed an opportunity here, but I am trying to get at the root of what brings out MORE SEXUALITY in me, rather than closing it off.) I said, "you want to f@#% *IT*?" He responded like that was just a word, not a big deal, but I'm trying to get him to see things from my point of view. I LOVE it of course, that he finds me exercising sexy, but I don't like certain words, phrases, actions. They turn me off and he has quite a few of them. Over the years, I would tell him or just kinda roll my eyes (mentally) and try to ignore. But since he has made our sex life such an issue, I think it's time we both address these kinds of things.

I did so many crunches I rubbed a spot on my butt RAW! lol!! I feel leaner and when I feel confident about my body, I am more likely to feel sexual with him.

Zu:



I understand this notion... but keep in mind that YOU are the one offended by certain words and phrases. It is YOUR sensitivity, not his... and to ask him to change his behaviors simply so YOU don't have to feel uncomfortable is part of the problem.

One thing YOU could do, that is entirely within your power, is to lose your sensitivity to such words and phrases.

If you don't want to, that is well within your right, of course. You can explain to your H which things offend you... but to expect him to change is controlling and manipulative. You certainly can hope that he will honor your feelings, but if he doesn't, then you are still at square one.

If YOU change... it doesn't matter what he does or does not do, and you have completely by-passed potential arguments.

Just something to think about.

Corri

I appreciate your input, Corri! (I have read your threads some before)

The typical way of handling relationships is so different than what I am trying to expose myself to now. I think Joey and I have both felt SO JUSTIFIED in our complaints, etc., for SO long that it is really challenging to change the mindset. Thank you for the varied perspective. I am trying to let some of this sink in.

So, in a perfect world, I would not have said anything? How can I express my DESIRES, knowing that he can choose to go with them or not. I am trying to change myself and "do what works." That is why I am focusing more on the sexual side of things, etc. This would NOT have normally been my first plan of action as a result of him having a little email affair with someone. But I am trying to respect his perspective on how things got to where they were and focus on what will work for us.

Zu:

I'm not sure I understood the exchange between you and your H. Were you trying to flirt with him, or demonstrate to him how it sounded to you (in an offensive way?) I took it to mean that this statement of his:



offended you. Or rather, at least didn't turn you on.

I am not quite sure I understand your meaning when you said: So, in a perfect world, I would not have said anything?. What desire did you express? What words/phrases/actions is he doing that you find to be a turn off?



This is the very definition of vulnerability... showing someone your feelings and giving them complete freedom in how they may or may NOT choose to respond to you. The mere possibility of rejection is what keeps many people from ever revealing their vulnerability to their partners... and without vulnerability, intimacy is impossible. And perhaps that is why your sex life has felt empty or emotionally unsatisfying to you?



Oh yeah. Been there done that. My shrink always used to say to me, "Corri, do you want to be right, or do you want to solve the problem?" Because being right has nothing to do with resolving issues. It just means you are 'right.' You see it This Way. Great. Now what? It does not change the fact that your H sees it
That Way, and that there is a very good probability that the REAL truth is a mix of This Way and That Way.

So your attitude of 'do what works,' I think, is a good one. As long as you are able to do it without building resentment.

Corri

Corri,

Thanks for reading and responding. You read it right. I didn't like the way he said "IT" -- I guess as opposed to ME. A small thing that normally I would have tried to ignore, but I'm thinking more and more I need to try and uncover my issues with sex.

When I said, "So, in a perfect world, I shouldn't have said anything?" I mean, if I were a perfect DR student, I wouldn't have pointed out that I didn't like what he said? I guess I would have purred something sexy back at him, but I want him to know when I find him a bit "crude" and it doesn't turn me on. I *AM* trying to see his requests as desiring intimacy between us, but let me put it bluntly:
My husband got caught in an emotional email affair a month and a half ago and he says that what will help him get over the past (which drove him to it) is me shaving, swallowing and engaging in anal sex. Sorry to be graphic, but I *AM* trying to "meet him in the middle" and HEAR from that, "honey, I really want to feel close to you and feel validated by you and have the fireworks and excitement we had in the beginning."

I guess in a nutshell, I am more into ML and he is more into F#$%ing. A common problem, I'm sure, but there is a part of me that's like, Yeah, I see that things had gotten a bit humdrum, but give me a break, we have had a preschooler and an infant and our sex life is not that bad! For him to run to an email affair as an "escape" is a bit of an insult, and we hardly ever even TALK about his mistakes, we mostly talk about his pain, what I did to HIM 15 years ago.

My whole reason for being here is that I am trying not to force the "I'm right" I want to save my marriage, but at times I have a hard time where to draw the line between changing too much, (making myself into a doormat) and changing in positive ways, for the good of my R.

Does this make any sense?

Zu:

Of course that makes sense, and I understand your side of it completely, believe me.

How do you feel about shaving, swallowing and anal sex? What is it about fcking you don't like? (Not saying you should like it, you are you... but there is obviously something going on with it that does not feel quite right to you).

I am curious to know why he said 'it' rather than 'you.' Did you ask him? Would you be willing to go back now and ask him, more in a conversational tone, rather than in any kind of accusatory tone?

Are you having sex now? How is it?

Corri

Yeah, when I say I'm meeting him in the middle, I mean sexually, not just trying to "see his side." We had sex several days in a row a few days ago, and once we had simultaneous O. He says he appreciates the extra effort I'm putting in. It's definitely making a difference, but I'm still pretty sure he feels all hung up on this one list of activities that to him are the pinnacle.

My girlfriends have for YEARS teased me about how "trimmed" I am, calling me "mohawk". lol After having children and that whole scene, I felt weird being big and pregnant with an overly trimmed downstairs, going to the doc for all the check-ups, etc., (plus it's hard to shave when you're huge and hard to keep up with it when you're a new mom), so I have let it become a bit more natural, but I don't get the whole shaved 100% thing. To me, that means major stubble ALL around AND it looks too prepubescent to me. Just not my thing. BUT, when he said something about it, I trimmed some more. He should have noticed, we had had 1 or 2 sessions, (where he did oral), but in an argument, (I had turned him down on a certain position and he got all pissed off and got dressed and went in the other room), I corrected him when he said he came to me with what would help him and I have DONE NOTHING. I said, "I've NOT DONE NOTHING, I shaved, which you never mentioned noticing, and I initiated sex last night!" I feel like he is only noticing what he does NOT have, instead of what he does.

Here's the deal with the "kinkier" stuff he is requesting. He SAYS it's because he feels it is stuff I did with one-night stand or with guys other than him, years ago. He says he was being vulnerable to me when he told me that these are the types of things that would mean to him that I really am passionate about him and want to be with him. He says it's insulting to think that I would do those things with "some guy" years ago, but not feel comfortable doing them now with my husband. I have told him my "swallowing" story. Shortly before I met him, I was dating a guy and tried it for the first time and nearly threw up and never planned on doing it again. He actually said that he can't understand how I couldn't want to do these things and in the big scheme of things, he really doesn't think it's that much to ask. The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. ;P And as far as anal, this is something that we have done just a very few times, briefly, over the course of our relationship. I do not like it, it makes me very flinchy/squirmy/uncomfortable, but it just makes him go nuts, he says because it is different. I NEVER requested this with anyone before him. When I was young and a party girl, for a short time before I met him, I had a one-night stand where I was VERY drunk, and it took place, but I didn't initiate it, if you get my drift. It's not like I'm psychologically damaged or feel like I was raped, but I just want him to know it's not like I was with guys before him, saying, "Ooh, let's do THAT!" Because I wasn't. But apparently, at some point in the past he must have asked me if I ever did it, and I probably answered, once, or something like that. So now he chalks it up to "something I would do with other guys when I was young, but won't do with him." I simply tried to explain to him, that it wasn't like that, "I was out of it and it was a one-night stand." To which he replied, smugly, "You had a LOT of those, didn't you?" And by the way, this was BEFORE I MET HIM. We did have a break and I was with other guys, but that wasn't this particular scenario.

And, so I'm standing there, thinking, what does this have to do with you emailing Pam, and why is it ALWAYS about what I did to YOU??!??!?!? :[

After each of our children, we resumed sex before the big 6-week mark rolled around, and this last year, he paid a lot of attention to my "back door." I did kind of ask him what was with the new fascination, since it was becoming a regular part of things and he just said it got him really excited. So he will say things to me, like, "I wanna lick your ass." Well, ok, and I might even like some hot attention like that, but somehow saying it when I'm still just getting warmed up doesn't work for me. A lot of times, he'll say, "I wanna do naughty things to you" or "I wanna get naughty." and he will do this while I'm cooking dinner! That just freaks me out a little. I would much rather he pinch my butt, unload the dishwasher, kiss my neck, ask about my day, tell me what a wonderful mother I am, etc. THIS would be foreplay to me. I have tried to tell him this as nicely as I can, but he always get this "deflated" body language and he just says "sorry." The undertone is "I can't win." I don't want him to feel that way, but I am trying to express how *I* like to be treated.

So, anyhow, I've told him that I get the message that he wants the sex life amped up and I'll do that, but in my own way. I haven't come out and said it this way to him, I've just tried to initiate more, etc.

Ok, that's enough for now, hope this helps. Thank you SO much for the advice. Things are going much better right NOW, but that could change like the wind.