There are three things on that list that can be medically corrected with hormone therapy....that DO ligitimately affect women during different events in our lives (we've gone over this MANY times...Menopause, Hypocative thyroid, hormones screwed up by the birth of 3 children.)
The relationship issues, YOU have a part in correcting and addressing.
Body image, that one is up to her...but you'd be amazed at how addressing 1,2,3,5,6 & 7) would affect her ability to change that.
Neglect as a child and possible sexual abuse as a child....that she needs IC for to help her move past. Once she became a mother some of the things she experienced when she was a child, fears of things happening to her own kids by other people, could have resurfaced...to make her hyper-vigilant towards them, and draw her attention from you.
Honestly CeMar...ALL of these things are legitimate reasons for a woman to become LD.
YOU are responsible for dealing with #1 IN MC, and bringing up the other issues to be dealt with as concerns of yours in the marriage. Be VERY tactful though about the Body Image/Overweight one.
How do you see issues 5 & 6 as not existing before she became LD? Those are FOO issues that pre-exist you. As GEL says, 2, 3 & 7 are medical issues. Have you discussed them with her? Has she seen a doctor and if so, what was the result? Did she actually get her thyroid tested, as well as her hormone levels? How much overweight is she? What is your physical condition?
I don’t know much about your history (well, you haven’t been too revealing), so can you tell me if you two have ever been to counseling? What came of it, what were the major issues, did any change come about?
Regarding her FOO, why do you say she was “possibly” abused? Did she tell you of this or is it just your suspicion? What type of neglect did she suffer as a child?
How do you feel about her abuse and neglect? Have you ever spoken about this? Have you been empathic about these matters or is it something the two of you do not discuss?
When you mention relationship issues, I know the relationship between you and her is not what you want. Is that the relationship issue you have in mind or are there other issues with other people? If so, who and what are the issues?
Why do you think her drive dropped off 3-4 years ago? What happened at that time that might account for some of the change? Haven’t you been on this board about the same amount of time?
I know these are reasons to be LD. But how does she overcome these issues. She has the thyroid condition but takes medicine for it and falls in the acceptable range, but essentially still has the symptoms. She need more treatment, but I don't wnat her to take additional medicine when she really does not need to. And how about the menopause, if a woman gets female hormones for that, won't that actually DECREASE desire? I would love to have her take testosterone as well, but again, this can be dangerous and have nasty side effects for women, so I hate to push that. I am not going to put HER health at risk for me.
But these are COMMON problems for women, how do they overcome these issues and be HD at the same time?
Issues 5 and 6 were obviously long before I met here. From what I understand about abuse, it may not efect a marraige until well into the marriage. It can cause the who wants to want problem.
Items 2,3, & 7 she is bascially being treated for. She gets thyroid medication and they are watching the others. She is likely in acceptabel ranges.
My wife esentially raised all her siblings from the age 9 on. Father was gone because of divorce, and the mother was a drunk, with many boyfriends, and was gone often. At 9 my wife was running the house while MOM was gone for several days.
RElationship issues, as far as I know have never involved another person.
Her sex drive did NOT drop off 3-4 years ago, it dropped of 3-4 years into our relationship. We are now in year 23. Essentially the newness factor wore off on her.
Honestly sometimes due to those issues (the medical ones) being HD can be something unattainable...but it's NOT HER FAULT! You keep making it sound as if this is something she's doing intentionally TO YOU.
There ARE points during a woman's life (like menopause) where our libido naturally takes a nose-dive, it's supposed to. This doesn't usually happen with men. Men are ALWAYS able to procreate, it's part of who you are....women aren't that way, that's why there's menopause. With menopause comes the body's way of saying "no need to make more babies", hence the nose dive in the libido. Hormone replacement therapy sometimes helps this, but it doesn't always. It hasn't helped my mother for example and she's tried many things.
The simple answer to your question of "how do they overcome these issues and be HD at the same time?" is....very often, they don't. You are focusing toooooo much on her being HD CeMar, honestly...I would go so far as to say you are obsessed with trying to make her HD, when I don't think she ever was to begin with. She may have had a higher drive at one time when you were younger and dating, but that's part of the infatuation phase of a relationship...I honestly don't think she's ever been HD, so you can't turn her into it.
If a women can not rebuild her desire, then she has absolutely no way of improving the problem of a SSM. LD women think that just doing the physical actions will actually improve the problem, and it will not. LD people can not "FAKE" desire. And without desire, it is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve "Complete Sexual Fulfillment". Dr. Smalley says that in his book. Smalley specifically says that the return of desire is a requirement in most marriages. Deida goes even further and says that the women must actually have MORE desire for the marriage to be successful. I guess this explains why 80% of all marriages fail.
Can I ask why you think it is OK for your father to go without desire for the rest of his life? Why do you think that is a reasonable request to make of another human being? Almost EVERYONE wants to be desired. And don't tell me she does it in other ways, because there is only ONE way to desire.
You make it sound as if it's a woman's fault that she cannot rebuild her desire/libido in situations like the one mentioned above. You sound resentful of the fact that a woman may not be able to do this, or that Dr's may not be able to help her to do this. Do you understand this is not something she has control over, that it is NOT something she's doing intentionally?
I've NEVER ONCE said that I thought it was ok for anyone to go without desire for the rest of his life....quit reading things into my posts that I'm not saying. I guarantee you I mean EXACTLY what I say in the words I choose. For someone who see's the world in such a black/white manner...you shouldn't be twisting my words. I have continually told you my mother shows her desire for my Dad in many ways, but those ways don't fit into YOUR black and white definition. Guess what? My parents are doing much better, my dad has LEARNED that my mother IS doing things out of love for him and he is happy with that.
YOU have a HUGE problem right now with resentment, you are treating this whole "desire" issue as if it is something your wife has concoted to do to you intentionally. IT'S NOT, IT'S NATURE TAKING IT'S NATURAL COURSE IN A WOMAN (IF your wife is going throug menopause that is.) Even if she's not going through menopause, the combination of things you mentioned tell me...she's not doing this on purpose to you, but you react as though she is.
However your resentment is blinding you to the other things she's doing because she loves you. Now that I know you see things in such a black and white manner....you absolutely cannot see that the other things she does for you is another form of desire (don't tell me it's not...because it is for those of us who don't see things black and white). That her being willing to have sex with you (even if she's not hot for you) IS another form of desire, that falls into the grey area....you simply are not willing to accept that as a truth, but it is one. If you cannot see the grey areas of how she does show you her love and desire...that's not her problem, it's yours.
There is only one way to desire IN YOUR BLACK AND WHITE VERSION OF THE WORLD. For other people, including your wife....there are many ways to show it. So I WILL continue to tell you that she does it in other ways...it is YOUR problem if you refuse to see that. If you refuse to see that she shows you her love/desire for you in other manners (as she can without her libido) then it's YOUR problem if you go without desire for the rest of your life, because you are not willing to expand your definition of it, to learn to see some of the grey areas.
Honestly...if you insist on seeing everything as black or white, she does or she doesn't, then you will remain stuck. You will remain feeling undesired. Learning to recognize what it is that my H really does do to show his love/desire for me...is one of the most useful things I learned that helped move ME past the resentment stage (which is where you are.) My learning to recognize AND accept those things helped fill my love tanks and kept me going in order to get to another place.
I've said it before CeMar, I say it again (not that it'll matter). SEE A THERAPIST.
Do you want to be happy in your marriage.....or do you want to be right?
I'm going to have to step in quickly and disagree. Yes, the doing of other things is a loving action. It is not, however, the same as showing sexual desire and attraction and never will measure up.
The question is really, can a person live with another who "loves" them in a non-sexual sense and be satisfied? Do you REALLY have to make do with only non-sexual love? I've been thinking on this alot lately. There aren't any true and fast, black and white answers because it has to do with an individuals needs and tolerance levels.
Just my 2cents. Didn't mean to butt in but it struck a cord in me today for some reason.
I would agree that the question is can a person live with another who loves them in a non-sexual sense and be satisfied. That is something CeMar has to answer for himself. CeMar however, doesn't look for the other ways his wife shows him "Desire". He gets mired down in his definition of it.
So, IMPO...if he cannot live in this marriage and find a way to be happy within it...then that is still HIS problem. He has removed all avenues of being happy. He uses his religion to say he cannot leave it (not saying that's right/wrong), he (as far as I'm aware) still has yet to actually TRY anything that's been suggested to him to change the situation too.
I'm not saying that the other things that are a way of showing love/desire....will ever measure up to the kind of sexual desire that CeMar is looking for. However, CeMar has such a rigid definition in his mind of what it is...that really the way things stand with her right now she hasn't got a hope in hell of satisfying what he wants.
What I AM saying is that recognizing those things as actual displays of love/desire...does help. Does it completely satisfy? No, won't pretend it does. It's a place to start though.
it has to do with an individuals needs and tolerance levels
Maybe it also has to do with a person's inability to see past what they WANT. I have needs too but I am willing to put them aside because I love my H and he is doing all he possibly can right now to show me the only type of love he knows how. That doesn't mean I am happy with it, or that it is fulfilling my NEEDS or my TOLERANCE level. However, I did marry "for better or for worse" and I intend to live up to those vows.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
