Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE He lied and lied and is still lying......

I mistakenly posted this in the newcomers section - think maybe it is more appropriate here in SSM (although it wasn't actually sex-starved, that's the odd thing). But some of you have really helped me out before and I could sure use some help today. - today's a bad one. Thanks O.


STORY:
We've been together 19 years. 2 d's 8 and 4. My h had an A. He said it was over. He said he didn't have sex. He said he had had no contact since I found out. He said his plane was late. He needed exercise so went on bike rides with our daughters crying to go with him. He doesn't go anywhere without his phone.

We were (I was, I guess) reconciling, trying to forgive and move on, going out with friends, making love, being with our children, making plans for holidays and the future.

Then I found a photo on his phone. "I didn't tell you because we are getting on so fantastically - she sent it to me but I didn't respond so she's got the message".

Then there was a document on his computer. "I don't remember writing it - it was before you found out"

I left to stay with friends and to think about things. He begged me to come back. We did. His girls coming back to make a go of it and be a family again. He was late to the airport.

Forward to now. He has to go and have a blood test to see if he has any horrible diseases. His phone bill for last month was 840 euros (about 1,100 dollars). He made 180 texts and 63 calls to her last month alone. He met her at the airport and spent time with her until his regular scheduled flight time to come home. He was late to the airport because he was talking to her in the car. I didn't expect flowers or balloons, but I did expect honesty and no more deceit.

She has just turned 21 for %$£!s sake.

Now he says it is REALLY over (again) and has PROMISED me (again) to be a good husband and father and REALLY PROMISED that he won't contact her (again).

How can I ever trust him? How can he possibly expect me to give him yet another chance? Not once has he come clean on anything, I have found it all out the hard way. He is still lying to me. I am still constantly feeling sick and dazed.

The man I married is gone. I don't see anywhere to go except away from him and his deceit and lies. I really don't think that this divorce can be busted.

Ocean

Ocean,

What is there to trust? He has shown some pretty clear patterns. He is operating within the parameters of your M, the parameters that you have a hand in setting. Sure he should be of higher moral character to not cheat on you, but then again, you should be of higher moral character to not tolerate being cheated on, don’t you think? Until you draw the line, why should he stop seeing the OW? Right now he has everything he wants, his family life plus a 21 year old. What would he voluntarily stop? Morals? Values? Ethics? His are the same as yours. He indulges in affairs and you tolerate it. What sets you apart?

This is a boundary and self respect issue for you. People will walk over other people. It happens. Some are worse than others. The only way to stop this is for YOU to not tolerate it. If you stick to the theory that he is in MLC and that you only have to be patient and wait for him to come out of the “fog,” then you are implicitly approving of his behavior, IMO. You allow the cycle to continue and you stay stuck. There is no reason for him to change since he has no reason to move to a higher moral plane. He is in his comfort zone, though that may not be your comfort zone.

There is a loophole in your value system and he is taking advantage of it. I suspect that loophole has to do with your own fears of abandonment, or something related, since you are so willing to take back someone who repeatedly cheats on you. Until you close this loophole within you, you will be vulnerable to being exploited. And once you decide you don’t want to be exploited, you might decide that you are more important than him. That might mean having to confront the possibility of leaving him and living on your own. Is that what really scares you?

I believe that almost all marriages can be repaired. But it takes work on both sides. You have to do your part first.

This is a great post Cobra. Ocean, I fully agree with what Cobra is saying. As a person who has had a ton of difficulty with identifying and implementing my own boundaries, I am all too familiar with allowing people to walk all over you and then resenting them like hell for it.
You H has stepped over your boundaries, more than once. As unfair as it is, it is up to you to put a stop to it. I wish you all the strength in the world as you decide how to proceed.

It can change but he is going to have to start showing you he means business and part of that is being an open book.

He is going to have to give you passwords, let you see his phone everyday if you want, bills, receipts - all of it!

Until he does that, you will always wonder. I know there are others that won't agree with me but if he has nothing to hide, he won't begrudge showing you everything. Like Dr. Phil says "if you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing"

Well, all of the above sounds great, but when you are in the sitch, it's not that easy. My motto was always "you cheat, you're gone." Then it happened to me. Now, granted, I found out about 2 EA's & 1 PA while I was on maternity leave w/ 2nd child and now just recently w/ D bomb found out about 3rd EA, so I would say that my circumstances at each time that I found out were kind of messed up, but what I'm trying to say is that it's not so easy to just walk away.

I wish you nothing but strength, because I guess you do need to be firm about it and not take any more of the crap if you truly want your M to work and your H to finally be faithful and know that it's not ok anymore.

what I'm trying to say is that it's not so easy to just walk away.

That's what I always used to think as well-that the only way to implement a boundary was to either leave or be left over it. I have since learned that splitting up is not the only way to implement a boundary. There are tons of options that could, and should, be considered before separation-there are many ways to make someone feel the ramifications of their actions short of physically kicking them to the curb. Be creative.

Thanks guys. This is what I have done.

-I have access to his phone whenever I want.
-I have her phone number (but will not call)
-I have copies of all the phone bills and online access to all future bills.
-I am going to call a lawyer to try and protect myself
-He has agreed to speak to a councellor and I will too.
-He is here when he isn't travelling, but we are not sleeping in the same room.
-He has agreed to quit is job if I want him to (I don't however - that would just be stupid at this point) so that there is no more travelling
-I am looking for an apartment back where we used to live. Here it is too isolated the house is old and is tons of maintenance.

I know that it isn't very concrete, but at the moment I need to stay strong and be able to look after my girls.

Yes I was duped the first time and thought if it was just a 'mistake' I could perhaps forgive (not forget) and I really worked on that. It is the subsequent lies and deceit that I can't forgive and certainly can't possibly understand.

I have drawn a huge line in the sand - but to move on takes time and planning and goal setting when children are involved.



Cobra I agree that the 'waiting to come out of the fog' is not acceptable, and that I had to make a stand. Yes, I am scared of going alone and being a single parent - it is scary. It is also exciting in some way, a new adventure. At the moment my children and my sanity are my focus. He will always be their father if not my husband.

I am trying to do this sensibly and not just knee jerk.
I appreciate your advice even if it is hard to read. So tell me what you think of the above.

I need to be smart and I will be dignified.
Ocean

Hi, Ocean.

You are NOT responsible for your husband's bad decisions in any way. His decision to do what he has done is his, and his alone.

Your contributions to the marriage are yours, and regardless of what they are, you did not force your husband to go and stick his penis in some other woman.

As for the "fog". I personally don't like that term as a definition for unacceptable behavior in a spouse, however, the FACT of the matter is that people in romantically involved affairs, have their brains awash in a bath of adult level "puppy love". That does result in some pretty stupid (and predictable) behavior patterns from the infidel. When the affair has run its course, and your husband has burned through all the psa chemicals in his brain, he will "de-fog" somewhat, and adopt a more normal outlook on life. This anomaly is well documented.

You have to be the one to decide when your relationship is over and what you are willing to put up with.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

Listen to NOP re: the fact that the A is not your fault. I have to time & again remind myself that, no matter how bad our M was, no matter what "transgressions" or mistakes I made in the M, my H made the CHOICE to have an A. He could have made the better CHOICE to talk & talk to me until his face turned blue or even to have dropped the D bomb years ago, but he made the CHOICE to cheat instead. I had nothing to do w/ that CHOICE. Hang in there!

You are both absolutely right:

He told me that there JUST HAD to be a reason for what he did. I agreed and said that the first contact was when we were under a lot of stress and I wasn't feeling well. He told he felt pushed away and we were arguing too much and he missed the spark.

But during the subsequent reconcilliation, when he promised it was over and that he knew what was important in his life - it had been a big wakeup call he told me (and sent texts to me LOL) saying I was the perfect wife; mother; friend; lover and women.
Meanwhile he spent 14 hours on the phone with her; met her in secret and sent 180 text msgs in 4 weeks.

How can this be?

I found out and he begged me (again) to give him another chance, that he would do anything;

I am still in our house for now as he is away a lot and it is at least manageable if not easy - this lets me focus on the children more before I decide the best way to proceed.

But last night he said something that I just don,t get. He now thinks that there MUST have been a reason also, for all the continued lying and cheating when we had decided to make it work again.

He's sure that this is that he was still hurt from the difficult period we were having and the sores were still open. This difficult period ended after he had slept with her, but before the affair got even more out of control. At the same time he told me constantly that I was amazing; he missed me when he was away that things were great.



NOPkins I value your advice - It seems to me that there is an element of addiction in this. Before this he did the same kind of thing with internet porn - I found out about it and he said he was stopping it anyway, this is about the time he started his A; When I found out about that he said it would have been over anyway - he said that again after the reconcilliation.

This is the thing I can't reconcile within myself: Part of me (very small part - closest to my heart), thinks - maybe this was really the kick in the side of the head he needed to stop always thinking that the grass is always greener. The large and intelligent part says: This is him, it will happen again.

Nopkins; You mentioned the documented facts. Are their statistics of how likely a spouse is to do this again?

I know I sound like I am on the fence; but I just need to understand the whole damn mess before I can move on - does anyone else feel like this? Can anyone help me understand this more; or is it time to just admit it isn't fathomable or reasonable and just move on?