Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Breakthrough ... and stuck

Ok, coming from woman's POV on the subject of change, who we are, etc.

It is very true that our weight, our self esteem, ALL OF THIS goes into who we are and how we feel about certain things, including sex.

We may know that the man doesn't care if we are slightly overweight, etc., however, that doesn't help us in any way. If we don't feel good about ourselves (and this doesn't necessarily need to be b/c of weight, it could be any number of reasons why we are not happy w/ ourselves), we aren't going to be happy period and that ends up affecting every aspect of our lives, including sex.

And the comment that the person who ends up changing is going to be resentful isn't necessarily true. Yes, I could use a little more "show of affection/love" from H right now, but it was me that made all sorts of changes in our R and in the end b/c of all that, our M has been saved. I was actually thinking about it this a.m. and I know for a fact that H now feels loved & taken care of by me and that's what he needed all along. However, I am not resentful of the changes I have had to make at all. I am glad things happened the way they did, however horrible things were there for awhile after the D bomb, b/c otherwise I would not have made the changes I did and neither one of us would be happy -- we would still be in our rut.

Chrome,

She IS going to have to change. If that only means she is more aware of her issues as well as yours, then that is change. If she becomes more empathic to your needs, then that is change. If she comes to recognize her FOO issues and can begin to control her reactivity toward them, then that is change. If she can become more self confident, more self assured, then she will develop a more rounded and balanced outlook on life, which is change. How is it that she must not change?

What I think she is hearing is that she needs to become a different woman, like the one you had the EA with. That is trying to live up to some imaginary fantasy standard, something she will never be able to do. That fear makes a good excuse not to try anything. I know you are not asking her to become that woman. Yet your W must change.

Will she be willing to undertake this growth if you she sees you going back to living life as you did a few years ago? If she sees you as regressing back to the old Globule, do you think she will want to change and do her part? Of course not. If nothing else, it would simply be unfair. Yet that seems to be what CeMar repeatedly wants. After everything discussed here, that expectation, from such a long time member of this board, is plain stupid.

Cobra, FWIW, I agree with you about the change statements you made.

I also believe that this..."I think she is hearing is that she needs to become a different woman, like the one you had the EA with" is exactly what she thinks he's wanting her to be. That is why I say she is still in a great deal of pain over his EA. Her statement regarding him wanting her to be like HER, said it all to me. She's interpereting his words/actions to mean that he wants her to be more like the woman that he had his A with. So, not only is that impossible in her eyes...it's also hurtful to her, because that would be very easy to interperet as "not good enough".

GEL

GEL,

I agree. So the issue is not so much the message but the interpretation of the message. Her filters are putting forth a bias that stops the true meaning from coming through because that meaning is threatening to her. It is her defense system at work and it is normal, and in light of what little we know of her past, it makes sense. But it still needs to change.

So, not only is that impossible in her eyes...it's also hurtful to her, because that would be very easy to interperet as "not good enough".

There is little Chrome or anyone else can do to help her get past this way of thinking. He can offer support and assurance, which does help, but in the end she has to overcome this lack of confidence on her own. It has to do with something inside her. Why is change impossible for her? Why is it hurtful to her? Why does she think she is not good enough?


Chrome,

Like GEL says, this is a good time for counseling or at least some type of education. I still think it would help your W a lot to read this board. Your task is to not let her stay in her present comfort zone where she can maintain her blinders, but instead allow her to confront the hard choices when they come up. That will mean that you have to stop walking on eggshells and be willing to bring things up in a healthy way. Don’t worry about sparing her pain. That is part of the growth. I don’t know of any way around it.

This is a really tough thing because even though we all need to change and keep changing in order to adapt to the things that life throws our way, I feel that Chrome's wife is dealing with changing in the face of some fantasy-chances are she doesn't know everything about what transpired between Chrome and this OW and even if she did know everything there was to know, she would never feel like she did, her mind would always fill in blanks and make stuff up. She may want to change, but she needs to get to the point where she makes changes for herself so that she can be happy with the person she sees in the mirror, not just the person that is reflected back to her through her childrens' eyes.
I am sort of dealing with changing in the face of a fantasy too-I want to be whatever it is my H wants, whatever it is that makes him so inclined to search out other women on the internet. This kind of change is a fruitless endeavor because I honestly don't feel like any kind of change will be good enough....I don't feel like I'm responsible for his actions in the first place, so how does changing help me to change his actions now?
I feel like maybe Chrome's wife may feel the same way. She's not responsible for what Chrome did, so from her perspective, how is changing going to prevent it in the future? Now, we all know that the goal is to change yourself into the person you want to be, into a person that your partner will want to be with. But she needs to come to that realization in THAT way....not as a result of 'giving Chrome what he wants'.
Maybe the best way to start out is by encouraging her just to get out of the house, away from the kids. To help her to develop herself outside of being a Mom. To encourage, praise and support her. To let HER decide how she wants to change. From my persepctive, it sounds like she's sort of lost touch with everything besides being a Mother. She has to get back in touch with herself before she can truly meet Chrome's needs.

Cobra,

In response to this "Why is change impossible for her? Why is it hurtful to her? Why does she think she is not good enough?"

Because if she feels he's trying to change her to be like the OW that...

#1 Reminds her of what he did which is VERY painful to her.
#2 Compares her to a woman she is NOT, painful
#3 Because of the fact that he stepped out with this OW, if she feels he wants her to be more like her then that is easily interpereted as she (his W), is not good enough as she is.

Combine those things...and you have a recipe for complete resistance to change her behaviors.

Also, I disagree with this statement "There is little Chrome or anyone else can do to help her get past this way of thinking." Yes, there is something he can do..and because he did step out he needs to do this to help her. He can clarify and reassure her. He needs to clarify for sure if she does in fact think that he's trying to change her to be more like the OW and if she does think this...then he needs to reassure her that's not what he's doing (if in fact that's not what he's doing...REALLY think about this Chrome). The fact that Chrome stepped out of his marriage and had an A makes this all that much more difficult to deal with. Because he did have an A it IS his responsibility to help her heal in this manner...and to help dispell misinterpretations when they happen.

This is another reason I think they REALLY need to seek regular MC.

GEL

Unfortunately, he can do all of those things, but until SHE is ready to make the changes or see that some changes would be good for HER and not just HIM, it ain't gonna happen.

Sounds exactly like me and all I did was get mad or defensive when H tried to talk to me about stuff. Not saying you need to go to the extreme of threatening D, but that's what it took w/ me.

Yes, there is something he can do..and because he did step out he needs to do this to help her. He can clarify and reassure her. He needs to clarify for sure if she does in fact think that he's trying to change her to be more like the OW and if she does think this...then he needs to reassure her that's not what he's doing

Reassuring and clarifying are good things and earn points just because he cares enough to do/say those things. However, I wouldn't honestly believe a word of it if I were her. From her perspective, she wasn't good enough for her H so he cheated on her and now he decides he wants to be with her.....but only if she changes. Change how? To be more like whatever it is that he found that he thought was better than her in the first place?
I just think that as long as Chrome is pushing her to change, he can say whatever he wants, but all she's gonna hear is that she isn't good enough. They have to heal from the betrayal first, or at least openly begin the process.

heather,

I absolutely agree with this "They have to heal from the betrayal first, or at least openly begin the process.", especially in light of what Chrome's wife has said to him.

Chrome, what have you two done...in order to deal with the A? What have you two done to heal the pain caused to your W? I know the two of you went to MC for awhile, but I don't remember what you two did to deal with this. Also, did you ever come clean with her the 2nd time? I remember you saying you were going to deal with some stuff before you did that, but don't remember reading that you had told her. Speaking as a BW myself now I can tell you that my radar is now always up for suspicious behavior. So, if you never did tell her...it's VERY possible she suspected. Not trying to reopen old wounds, just trying to clarify.

GEL

This is something we all go through as we see changes we need to make. We recoil in horror and say "I can't do XYZ ever again? I'll go nuts" or "I've got to do ABC every single day for the rest of my life? I'm getting worn out just thinking about it!"

And then we backslide and face that again. And again.

When you get right down to it, the results have to be rewarding to you. You can't do it purely for someone else's benefit, or you will get sick of putting in the effort day after day with no payoff. How do you get past that when the payoff is slow in coming?



That's a good question, although probably not phrased the right way. There's something she'd have to give up, or something she'd have to face, if she spent more time being open and affectionate with you. You probably don't really know what it is, and odds are she doesn't either.