Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE For Me

Lou,

I tell you what. I have read a lot about home births but I can't say I ever wanted to have one. I handle pain well and don't want an epidural but the idea of having to clean up the mess yourself afterwards - well, yuck! If I go into labor i will just have to recognize it in time to make the nearest hospital (35 minutes) or the one I'm registered at (1hr 45min) OR I could wind up delivering in the car on this enormous bridge that is about an hour into the drive. If I make the newspaper I will let you all know!

Karen

Or we can just get HP out to Maryland. She's not only got experience with home deliveries, but she was also looking into getting licensed as a Doula Too bad she gave up the bb for Lent.

My illustration does indeed point out why LL is important and why respecting the other's LL is important. However, time and time again on this board we have discussed the fact that meeting the other's LL makes for a happier overall marriage but rarely results in the higher desire partner getting more actual sex. My H can acknowledge my need for PT verbally but DOING it (all kinds of touch) seems a different matter altogether. We have a long way to go on this.

Karen,

Forgive me for dwelling on the LL thing a bit more. First off LL is a fairly simplistic concept but I still believe that within a relationship the genius of it is that IF both partners meet the others LL it can clear up a lot of "hostility" and hurt feelings. I know that PT is the LL many of the SSMers are dealing with but even if you think about the other LL your example still holds true.

What if a H has a AOS LL and his wife has a WOA? If neither LL is met, the relationship is probably struggling. If one of the spouses begins to meet the other's LL, things probably start to improve AND YET the spouse without the LL met would still be hurting from not getting from their partner what they NEED WITHIN the relationship to feel loved.

Does your H know about the LL concept? If so, how much have you stressed the non-sexual part of physical touch to him? Since he seems to understand how much he appreciates having his needs met, it seems strange that he is averse to yours. It really makes me wonder if he has some fear of not being able to do it well enough or something.

By the way I read through this thread and your H's habit of calling out as he walks to the bathroom that after brushing his teeth you will be making love CRACKED ME UP! That does sound like a management/leadership type of communication For some reason that just makes me think of doing something silly like calling out only if you can find me and hiding somewhere obvious!!!

Fearless,

Believe me - my H cannot possibly have missed how important PT is to me since it has been a recurring subject of discussion. I have given myriad examples of types of touch that don't include sex that I also miss - all to no avail. When H doesn't feel good about himself he withdraws and doesn't come out until he is good and ready. When he does feel good about himself he still only provides a small incremental amount of PT that barely skims the surface of what I would call a "baseline" level of touch in a happy M.

He doesn't know about the LL concept per se although I have mentioned it in different words. He is generally averse to to any psychobabble lingo. Basically, on the SSM board in general we have often seen the HD parnter knock themselves out to meet their spouses LL needs only to have a happier partner but their own needs go unmet. Frequently it seems to relate to the spouse feeling that there is underlying expectation or that the partner doing all the LL stuff has become somewhat of a wimpy, doormattish, unattracive person for kowtowing. There is a line somewhere between meeting and exceeding needs. There is also a definite line in the sand called "don't bother if you don't do it with pure intent." That being said I do meet my H's needs out of intention to show my love for him. He responds by providing me the things he needs instead of what I need and have repeatedly requested.

I agree completely that all of this has a lot to do with my H trying to be "good enough". It also has a lot to do with the mild/moderate depression that I believe my H experiences. It isn't chronic but it is frequent. He knows it is there and works on it in his own way but that way doesn't include meds nor personal therapy unless it gets more severe (as it has when he was grieving). I also suspect that it has to do a bit with the madonna/whore comlex issue.

Yes - my H is pretty funny. I prefer his straightforward version of initiation to the times that he furtively touches me and then waits for me to start everything. What I would give to have him actually just "jump me" the way he did a few times while dating.

The doc has okayed our family trip 2 hours from our hospital for next week but has said (a)No excessive walking, (b)come home at the first sign of anything. She didn't say "no sex" but since sex tends to cause a bunch of contractions I'm wondering how much of that is in the cards for this trip. Oh well, I'm having a baby sometime within the next few weeks and I WILL enjoy this trip and this baby.

Karen

It really does seem he has some issues that are preventing him from really being able to meet your needs. The good news, as you are OBVIOUSLY aware of, he definitely SHOWS his love for you so that isn't an issue.

How does he respond to touch from you? If you touch his arm casually, what does he do? Can you give him a backrub, foot massage, heck even scratch his back?

I'm just wondering if the way to start is with you touching him in very non-invasive, non sexual ways to start.

Please for give me if you've already talked about and tried these techniques...

Fearless,

I wish I could say that I haven't done all of this. The bottom line is - I have given backrubs, footrubs etc...all of which H likes and he says - "thank you". I have given bj's with no request for return (which he also loves) and I have had no oral from him since we were dating unless I directly ask. I have given kisses, shoulder pats, fanny pats - you name it. I occasionally get one back - sometimes I get what we call here the "wax on/wax off" from him if he doesn't want to be bothered. In short, I have touched him in myriad ways and had responses ranging from annoyed to mildly enthusiastic to very enthusiastic and all with no corresponding change in his behavior. I have done these things consistently throughout our relationship - over weeks, over months etc....

It is much the same with our "heart to heart" over the email - he hasn't changed his behavior a bit. My enthusiasm for trying is starting to abate. I'm 9 mos pregnant and I asked him to be a partner to me and he will do it only in the ways he chooses to while ignoring my needs.

He does show me that he loves me. And most of the time I actually believe he does. However, sometimes the credibility of his "love" for me gets a little strained by his lack of respect for the relationship currencies that I value the most.

Karen

I wish I could say that I haven't done all of this. The bottom line is - I have given backrubs, footrubs etc...all of which H likes and he says - "thank you". I have given bj's with no request for return (which he also loves) and I have had no oral from him since we were dating unless I directly ask... In short, I have touched him in myriad ways and had responses ranging from annoyed to mildly enthusiastic to very enthusiastic and all with no corresponding change in his behavior.

It is much the same with our "heart to heart" over the email - he hasn't changed his behavior a bit... I asked him to be a partner to me and he will do it only in the ways he chooses to while ignoring my needs.

He does show me that he loves me. And most of the time I actually believe he does. However, sometimes the credibility of his "love" for me gets a little strained by his lack of respect


Karen,

You might be misinterpreting me. The questions I am asking are about understanding what HIS issue is. The great thing about your amazing effort is that it helps with figuring out the root cause.

Honestly PT seems to me to be an overwhelming issue for him even on the simplest of levels and yet there is a strong confirmation that he actually does love you (by using HIS LL to show it)

So one last question, have you asked him WHY PT is an issue for him? At this point he MUST be aware that he has some type of aversion to it. If all he says to back rubs and foot rubs is "thank you" (rather than "MMMM that feels soooo good") that says to me that while he appreciates the fact that you have done something for him, he doesn't necessarily enjoy the act itself.

I know you don't have the time or patience for it now. My last thought is that at some point, when you're not feeling angry, frustrating, impatient, you need to ask him without being confrontational. There just seems to be an issue with touch for him. It doesn't seem purposeful on his part although I am sure it FEELS purposeful to you!!!

Fearless,

Didn't purposely ignore this post. I just went out of town. Actually, my H does "MMMMM, that feels good" and the standard responses to PT most of the time. Then, sometimes, for reasons that only he knows he gets uncomfortable and weird about even the most non-sexual touches. There is no standard response when it comes to H except his standard non-reciprocity.

All,

Back from the beach. We had a nice time. H waited on me hand and foot. He didn't want standing ,walking etc... to start labor. Had a couple of nights where I thought we might be headed home but the contractions stopped without getting more regular or more intense. I see the doc tomorrow to see what is happening with the baby hotel that is my body. I am 11 days from my due date so any time now is fair game. H refused to touch me with a ten foot "pole" while we were away for fear of starting labor - I was pretty ok with this because I wasn't exactly keen on having the baby in the car on the way to the hospital either. We didn't have any heart to hearts or anything just spent family time.

H was on business overnight last night and will be back tomorrow and not away again until baby day. I am ready for this baby to come. Let's hope for this weekend!

Karen

Ok - we are officially in the last week before my due date (4/21) and I am DONE!!! I need to have this baby in my arms and not riding around uncomfortably in my belly!!!

That being said we did the deed this weekend. It was an unqualified disaster. Dh's one position doesn't work with a last trimester pregnant belly - I have dropped and so me being on top means unsatisfactory penetration (not good for him or me). So - we had a couple of stops and starts with me finishing him off orally. I got attention until he finished.

Really we need to go doggie for this to work. I'm game and I'm going to do my darndest to talk him into it tonight. Why does everything about sex in my M have to be so difficult? Why does everything involve walking on eggshells, being careful with what I say and do, tolerating long periods of no sex and acting ok with it? My big pregnant fertility goddess self would just love for him to come at me with some massage oil and evil intentions with the plan being lets just try a bunch of things and see what works. Let's rub each other all over and have a great time. And all just because he thinks I am a hot Mama. I guess that is just too much to ask.

Karen

I don't know but I do know that my perspective on the whole issue has changed since I've been separated and back out in the land of the HD male. I'm going to risk being obnoxious and suggest that you really need to figure out what kind of sex life, even if that means being a spy, your H is having since he clearly isn't having much of one with you. I think being a spy is indicative of fusion but I also think it might tell you what you might most want to deny.