Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tam...I want to comment on the red portion....if something it not healthy and we continue to do it we are not learning, we will not get stronger, and we will not "see" what we are meant to "see" until we CHANGE what we are doing....refer back to the other poster's sister....she hasn't learned because she hasn't changed!!!...Don't fool yourself by thinking that is going to make you stronger...if that was the case you would be stronger by NOW!

Now read the blue portion....see how just taking your M/H out of the loop changes it all...AND...get this...reading it this way makes you SOUND stronger...and if you SOUND stronger, you APPEAR stronger, and if you APPEAR stronger people will TREAT you stronger, AND if you are TREATED STRONGER...soon you WILL BE STRONGER!!!!

Tam...I don't want to leave you, I don't want to make you feel like you have to do anything for me, but you need to break out of that totally helpless, non-working, spiral you are in....and I don't want to be "helping" you stay in the spiral...I don't want to continue to help you keep "hurting"...that is what it is beginning to feel like...

I am glad to see you feel you are a point of no return on the moving issue...I really believe that distance will help you more then you realize right now...while H may not be sleeping with OW every night now (contrary to what your mind chooses to believe) this will give him another place to be away from everyone and think....I do believe he probably did go away to think when he was gone....he came back with a different point of view (even though you practically forced it out of him)....so stop while you are ahead!

Also...wanted to comment on that part where you said H was considering another investment for you both and until it came down to it you would not rock the boat...think about this...you are moving the office....if you decide not to further your (as in both of you) investments this might give him the wrong idea...personally I would go ahead with any of the investments he wants to do for "US"...this is keeping him thinking about you two again in the future...that is a good thing...you would just not be in his face daily with your office at home...BUT if you rock HIS boat and have your office at home he may conclude that you want OUT...so..rethink this, please....

Just remember this...the only way I was able to make the changes I needed to make was by putting the focus on ME...as long as you continue to try and figure H out, think about him and OW, wonder what he is doing, think about HIS journey....you ARE NOT focusing on your own and it hinders your ability to make the changes you need...

I can tell you right now...if H came to you and said I am ready to come home you would jump in his arms...but in a few weeks he would be gone....and maybe for good....you need to work on you...

You said you weren't clingy before, you weren't needy before...the thing is you WERE...you just had CONTROL and you manipulated and molded H into what you wanted....he then became unhappy with who he is and this is where you are...so you have to admit to yourself that there was a problem WAY BEFORE November....and you have to SEE it....that is your job/goal...and this is the key to the WHOLE ENCHILADA!

Hi, everyone --

Have that feeling in the pit of my stomach again... It's hard to get up and get going in the morning. I just want to pull the covers up over my head and wish this would all go away. Am feeling that urge to talk to H and get reassurances again, just to make the pain go away for a while. But, then I know it just comes back again and it's a vicious cycle, so I must control those emotions and just keep plugging away.

Thanks, Lin, for writing and for sticking with me still for now. Your advice, insight, and encouragement do mean the world to me.



I will take this one step at a time. When/if something concrete comes up before a reconciliation, I will deal with it then based on the current circumstances at that time. I don't want to push him away and give him the wrong impression, but I do not feel like it's wise to keep enabling HIM to have the best of both worlds.



Lin, I honestly DON'T see this right now, that I was clingy and needy in our M. I have always viewed myself as very independent. I don't feel like I manipulated him into someone he didn't want to be at all. We got here mainly because of the lack of romance and ML in our M and also because I have become more "tight-laced" in my old age... I DO see those things and have been working hard on those things. But I honestly don't see the neediness/clinginess in our M before this happened. I will continue to think about this, but I just don't see it.

If you or anyone has any ideas about what else I am supposed to be "seeing" and working on about myself, I would certainly welcome your thoughts.

Aud, I do understand about having hope in myself and in becoming a better person rather than in having hope in H's words. Right now, I don't have a PMA about myself. I still feel that lost and scared feeling, trying to find my way. H has told me before that he didn't want to be married anymore, and he could very well tell me that again. But, for now, he has not, and if I can pull any sort of positives out of what he is telling me and use that to continue on with this journey, that helps. As I said, until I'm forced/told that he has changed his mind, it helps to look at the M glass as half full right now, even though his actions are not supporting his words.

So, for Monday, since things have changed a bit as far as H now saying he does want to work on our M, I'm not sure what I'm going to say regarding my move. I want to sound empowered, yet not cold. This is so incredibly hard for me to do, and I just want to do it the right way if I'm going to do it.

Okay. Gotta run and get on with my day before I start wallowing in sadness... Thanks again, everyone.

Hey, Virginia --

I wanted to tell you how much it meant to me that you told me/us all about the crises you went through in your situation, all of the different stages you battled with. It took a lot of courage and strength for you to share all of those personal things, and I admire you for it. Hearing the phases you went through makes me not feel quite so crazy in all of this. So, thank you for your courage.

Tam

...Lin is correct. Your husband did not just wake up one day
and decide to have an affair...it was done because he was very
unhappy with "the marriage". This unhappiness started, at least
a year ago....

Your need to control is your downfall.

You didn't listen to his views
You talk over him...to get your opinions out
You manipulate his life
You have to run the show
You feel like you own him

Yet...who is not in control now? YOU

Marriage is a choice...it allows two people to walk together in
life...it doesn't mean that one person has control over the other
one...it means two people walk side by side...two individuals.
You support each other, their dreams, desires, you look after
their needs, you allow them to be their very best...while, at
times, they fall, you will be there to dust them off.

The lessons you need to learn............

Love can never be manipulated...by anyone.

Your fear of failure is what drives this obsession with your H.
It's not love...it's about you failing in your own personal
expectations, for yourself...you place more worth on your "face"
value to society than your own being...so, if H doesn't want to
be with you - destroy - kill the business...you'll still be that
miserable, unhappy, clingy person...

Love would say...I love him, so I don't want to hurt his businesss deals...I'll let him sort all this out...if he chooses
me in the end, the wait was worth it...if not, he has, my love.

Give him the full leash...let him think...if you pull on that
leash he will leave.....................

Leave him alone.......so he can find his way home...........

Go back and read the reponse I suggested before about moving your office....it will work for this situation...it is open ended....not cold...not distant...but STRONG!

As always, 1210, thanks for your in-my-face advice and insights. I will talk with my IC about the things you all have brought up about me. I just don't see most of it, I guess. I do see the problems in our M and know that they started long ago but don't feel like it was because of me being controlling, but maybe I'm wrong...

Yes, it is my fear of failure right now that is driving me so hard, my sheer beliefs in love and doing what it takes to make it work out. I am not able to feel an undying love for H quite yet; we've been through a lot, and that is going to take time. I'm willing to wait for it.

Don't know about the business yet. I feel like by continuing as we are and pretending that nothing has changed that I am enabling him to continue his behaviors. He has no reason to change. And I just don't think my heart wants to continue in business with him if we are not together. It hurts too much. You know how much I am falling apart inside right now. I have no desire to stand by his side in business while he has a R with someone else. I feel like I would never be able to get all of this behind me. At any rate, we'll just keep playing that one by ear as it comes along.

I just went to the store and bought some paper and a new copier for my home office. Those were the things I thought I might need at home that I don't have. So, I'm still plugging away at this whole move thing.

H called this morning to ask me a business question. When he calls in the morning, he usually says something like "good morning. how are you today?" He is so nice and pleasant, and it just tears me apart... I'm going to the job site now to keep working on my plants. He is there as well, so we'll see how today goes.

We were invited to a party some friends of ours are having tonight. I asked H if he was going, and he said he didn't know yet. So, we'll see. I am planning on going regardless of whether he goes or not. It will be nice to be around my friends and to get out for a while.

Tomorrow H has his first race of the season. He hasn't said anything to me about going. I suspect he may mention it either tonight or tomorrow, but maybe not. I'm not planning on going. His mom may call me, as she and I usually go together to watch him. So, don't know how I'm going to handle that quite yet. I know I shouldn't go, so no 2X4's are necessary...

Well, gotta run but just wanted to check in. Thanks again for your support and perspectives. I hope that I'll be able to "see" what you are telling me I need to change soon...

Okay, explain to me what behaviors you are enabling him to continue....as I see it the business financially benefits you both....do you honestly think if you pulled out of the business (before any final decision has been made about M/R) that it would cause him to act differently???....you are enabling him to make money for you both...

I can understand IF there is ever a finality to your relationship that you would want to separate things but for now I think you have a good thing with the income by the sound of it....you need a job/income and to start out totally on your own with your emotional state as it is might lead to some major financial woes for you down the road...also cutting that off is more likely to make H look at you like an incomplete part of his "life"...

I think what enables him more then anything in his "behavior" is you going to parties, dinner, vacation, families or whatever with him and acting like you two are together!!!...He doesn't have to explain anything, no one has to know there is a problem, this allows him to appear as genuine as gold...if I were you(and I clearly know that I am not)...to make things a bit more real to him I would stop the social activities and family activities with him...this, more then anything would cause him to face the music...my opinion

Also, another thing about the business...if you cut and run on it he might just use that to explain to everyone why he got OW...you went nuts on him, divided the business, etc...

Where with the not going to activities with him...what can he say but something closer to the truth...and even if he lies you are still in business with him and it will be harder for him to convince others that the problem is you...

As for the insight into your control issues...1210 pointed out much better then I did the subtle ways you can take control in a marriage without realizing it...I know I always thought my H and I "talked" about things...H's perception was that I stated what I wanted and he felt if he didn't go along with it that there would be HELL to pay....or I would keep harping on him...now am I saying these are REASONS to go and have an affair???...NO!!!! but they are CAUSES for another person to become unhappy...it just so happens that some when unhappy will look to an OP to satisfy that need for them....others might act out...others might overeat/undereat....others might work more/less...so you see how just thinking that we are fine got us where we are???... really does anyone EVER leave the PERFECT spouse behind???

Thanks, Lin. I understand and respect your views and, yes, you are right in that I do not want to cut the business off unless there is some sort of finality to things with us. My thoughts are that my point would be simply to state to him that I am not comfortable with the way things are to continue to buy more properties with him. I feel that by doing so, he's getting everything he wants, me continuing the business with him and the OW on the side. Obviously that is very hurtful to me. It's just really hard for me to continue to make him happy in the business when he is hurting me so much in the R/M. I don't know if that makes any sense or not; it's just the way I feel. There is no immediate proposition on the table at this point, so this isn't something that I need to deal with right now, but it's just something going through my mind. And I don't know, but it may cause him to wake up if he thought the business was not going to be the two of us any longer. We are excellent business partners and are fortunate to be a great team in that respect. I do NOT want to do this to manipulate him; I just don't want to feel used or like I'm okay with all of this. It's really hard to have to keep dealing with him on the business every day when my heart is breaking. I feel like that for me to just continue to do so with no end in sight is enabling him to continue on exactly like things are going...

As far as going to activities, family functions, etc. with him, you're absolutely right. However, if I do not go, he would simply say that I'm working (he told his family at Easter that I might have to work in case I didn't go), and no one would think a thing about it since both of us are such workaholics. I would bet anything that he would NEVER say anything close to what is going on as an excuse, unless we had actually finalized something. I say this just from knowing him. I DO wonder whether being around family actually HELPS our cause, simply because our families mean the world to both of us, and I know it hurts him to think about hurting our families as well through all of this. I guess that's the way I kind of felt at Easter, that to be around his family might actually open his eyes to how important family is... I don't know.

Thanks for your comments about the control issues. What you said makes sense, and I will think about that when I engage in conversations with him about ANYTHING, to try to listen to what I am saying and how I come across. I remember that H has told me on many occasions that I'm always going to "win" the argument, so why should he fight it? This would lend towards what you are saying. I'm not sure yet how to change that, but I will think about it and work on it. Thank you.

Well, things went okay when I saw H today at the job site. I finished my plants, and he was very pleasant to me. He said he'd let me know later whether he was going to the party tonight. I'm still going no matter what. Don't know if he'll go or not. When I was walking to my car to leave the job site, he was walking next to me to walk to the store next door, and he put his arm around me to hug me as we were walking (NOT provoked by me at all). I did not talk about any R/M issues with him today, did not ask for a hug, just kept it strictly business. He seemed a little more chatty today than normal, which was nice, even though it was just about the business.

Well, gotta run again so that I can get a few things done before I get ready for the party tonight. I have to work really hard tomorrow, as I've had a hard time focusing today - am nervous about the move and whatnot. Tomorrow I have lots of work to get done, and then I have to pack everything up for Monday. H usually comes in to the office first thing in the morning before going to the job site, so there is a risk that he might see the boxes and whatnot on Monday morning since I'm going to pack them tomorrow. If he does, he does. I'll just have to deal with it.

I would appreciate any insights you guys have as to what I should say to him about the move considering the current situation. As I mentioned, I want to sound empowered, but I don't want to be mean. Jody said that I could say something about all of the work that I need to concentrate on right now and that it would be good for me to be home to do that. She also said I could say something about it getting uncomfortable with our two overlapping R's, the M and the business, and that me going home to work would give us both some space and hopefully ease some stress for both of us. And I know Lin suggested that I say that I'm moving home to work and that I'll get everything done just the same and will be able to work there regardless of whether we stay in business together or not. Again, my goal is not by any means to make this a permanent move, as I really despise working out of the house, which is why we even got an office in the first place. But for now I hope the rewards will far outweigh the negatives.

Okay, gotta go. Thanks again for everything, guys.

I think you pretty much have all the insights already on what to say regarding moving the office to home....

Good job with H today and a good response from him....see, you don't NEED to ask for a hug!!!

I think for now you need to separate the two...business and R/M....making him happy in the business has NOTHING to do with in the R/M...him making you hurt so much....the two are separate and that is how he is probably looking at it as well...one has nothing to do with the other...it is BUSINESS....your being there doesn't "allow" him to be with OW....so you two are great in business together...that is actually a plus...I don't think you need to pull that plug just yet...and I don't see H sitting on the fence forever...but he will need to see the changes in you...see that you are a positive person....see that you can allow him to "win" (this is how I handled my control problem...I would ask myself "Is this going to kill me or otherwise negatively impact my life to the point of injury?"...If the answer was NO...I let it go...or picked a better time to REALLY just talk about it.)...see that in all of this you remained constant with the business...I don't see him making a decision about OW before he is ready (and you) and I don't see that the business will force that decision...they are totally separate!

Have fun at the party...and for my part...I hope H doesn't go...you need a night of fun on your own!!!!

RE what to say to your H about moving. First off, unless you say something insane or truly cruel, don't worry too much about getting each sentence correctly as if that will make all the diff to your H.

Why not say the truth? He wants space and you need space, in order to get more work done. Period. If he pushes it, which I seriously doubt, you can simply ask him to have some empathy and think really hard why it might be a tad uncomfortable for you. You know, uncomfortable to be around someone who might want to work on the M, or might want to sleep with OW again, or whatever. Give him space and GET some space for yourself. You really do need it. Good luck, and btw, my sister (the one who die NOT handle the divorce well) has not admitted to me or our other sisters, insight into her role in the demise of her first marriage. Maybe she has some and they make her ashamed, she did gain a lot of weight. But my point is, b/c she was so afraid to really do the soul searching needed to see her role in the divorce, she continues the same behaviors. It's different now b/c her 2nd H is so sick. (her H#2 has a Brain tumor--which confirms to my sister how the universe is against her, but I digress)) But the point remains, many of the same behaviors she exhibited in her first M, she is repeating now. So I guess what I'm saying is if you really don't see how you contributed to at least SOME of what's going on, then your sitch is probably hopeless. I mean, if you were perfect, there is nothing you can do or change...Hey, the reality is the only thing you DO have control over, is you. It helps if you see those things b/c you can work on them, and you'll be a better woman no matter what happens.
good luck,
j-