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I have to agree with Heywyre about your wife's mental state. Even though the cutting was a year ago, it's pretty intense behavior. Particularly in an adult. And even if it was for attention....

I think her mental state and parenting should be bigger issue than where the marriage is going and what else is happening. Of course, you only have so much control over her decisions since she's an adult. I think protecting the kids should be number one.

RGM,

Just stopped by the office for a few things & wanted to check in and send you PMA and positive thoughts for the weekend!

I can't believe the MC and C won't allow you to talk to them, or each other. That's seems rather narrow-minded to me.

The next thing I would do then is talk to your GP and pass the name of her C onto him/her. Perhaps they can make a professional call with your concerns. I am guessing the C doesn't have a clue about what your W has done or is doing. Wouldn't they want to know how unstable a patient they had?

I feel for you RGM, you are in a really bad spot. There is a saying I try to live by (not that I adhered to it when I got involved in my own sitch - but it does have its merits) and its "the trouble with getting involved with people that have problems is their problems become yours" - how true that is, particularly in your sitch. You are between a rock and a hard place and its a BIG rock

I wish there was something else I could suggest but I am out of suggestions. She has made everyone believe that it is YOU that is the problem (typical of people that have major problems- my H did it too).

When H and I got together, he told me of how he cared so much about his previous wife abd/or gf's, how they took advantage of his thoughtfulness etc. and how he was just trying to help them blah blah blah and how they were the ones that were screwed up.

I don't deny some of them were screwed up but my H wasn't exactly prize material either so it definitely wasn't one sided, it never is. But, as much as you are not perfect, your W's distortion of reality is a real concern and she has everyone around her convinced of it too - how sad

Let me just add my humble two cents in here....

Cutting isn't about attention, it's about releasing pain in a controlled manner. I always thought it was a strange thing until this past summer when I started fantasizing about doing it myself. I was in so much pain emotionally...depressed, filled with anxiety, etc., and I really gained a lot of understanding about the appeal. I never did it--I started going to IC and got back on ADs--but I really, really wanted to.

Cutting is serious stuff. If your wife is/was doing it, it's about pain, pure and simple...

SD

BeingMe,
I actually had a chance to read you post this weekend. Unfortunately I couldn't remember my user name for my home comp, so I couldn't respond.:) I actually used your post in a conversation I had w/ W though. Hope you don't mind. I also tried to get W to think what it was like growing up w/ her M not there all the time. Wanted her to think about what it might be like for our kids after a D. She just explained both of them away. She justified it by saying that she'll make sure the kids know that she L them & maybe they'll have to go to C. Then she just said the sitch about her M is completely different. Her M was dead. She'll still be around. (Just only every couple of days.) This is same type of response & justification she had last year when she dropped the first bomb. She expects everything to be completely normal. We'll just share the kids. She'll want to travel together. She feels a family is what you make of it. So she feels she can make a family out of her and the boys. She admits she is causing or will be causing great pain to everyone involved, but she keeps explaining she has to be true to herself.

As for the story, it is very sad but true. I must confess. I am guilty of that as well.

You're right SD,
It is about pain. However, W feels only way to deal w/ pain is to bury it until she can't handle it any more and then let's it explode. W has been in a great deal a pain. Would never let me be there for support. W said always felt like she couldn't bother me w/ it. Says she knew I was too stressed from work. It didn't make a difference how many times I asked her to tell me what was going through her head, or I knew she was hurting from something and I want to be there for her. I guess what hurt that was I'm the proverbial fixer. I never knew I wasn't supposed to help fix things. That's how I grew up. If someone was in trouble or needed something, you helped them fix it. When W would finally tell me her problems, I'd offer solutions. Found out W didn't want that. She felt like I was trying to control her, manipulate her. W felt like I didn't think she was competent enough to take care of things. She just wanted me to listen. I just wasn't smart enough to do that.

RGM

To Heywyre and all,

Just some journaling from the weekend, as well a little insight to the current trend.

First of all, the weekend didn't really go all that great thanks to yours truly. I did one of the top ten on the list of "NO NOS". I snooped. Not only did I snoop, I got caught snooping. Yes, I know snooping does you ablsolutely no good whats so over, but I did it anyway. I got tired of waiting for the shoe to drop. W had told me she was filing. I knew W had contacted her L. I knew L was responding w/ the status of something last week. Early Sunday moring, two of our dogs woke me up to go side. When I let them through the garage. I decide to do some snooping where she used to hide stuff during our first adventure. I went through her vehicle looking for paperwork. The last dog woke her up and wanted to go outside. She opens the garage door to let him out back and I'm sitting in her van go through things. I didn't try to explain it or hide it. When she asked what I was doing I told her I was snooping for papers from her L. I was tired of wainting and not knowing what was going on. Surprisingly, she didn't explode, but I know she was p!$$ed. She just turned around and went back to up to bed.

Heywyre,
all of those involed right (C,MC,OBGYN) know about her cutting, but unless I either get a court order or she agress to it, she doesn't have to agree to any treatment. She flat out denies she'S experiencing any type of depression. She absolute will not go AD's. She's gone big into natural alternatives to medicine. Having the GP call her C won't do any good. C and MC are both on the alternative medicine side. Besides, I just found out where this new found path of enlightenment, which my W has decided to travel down, has come from. I decided to call C myself. The stuff spewing out of W's mouth is coming directly from C. It's not that C is directly telling her to leave R,M or F, but her whole philosophy is that each person is independent of everyone else. Another words, W is not responsible of her actions cause others discomfort or hurt. That MLC's are actually a good thing. C refers to them as Mid Life Awakenings. Sometimes the MLA allows you to get in touch w/ problems from your childhood and helps you understand and overcome your past problems. In order to be able to heal your past problems, one has to concentrait only on one's self. Everything else must be sacrificed for the individual's well being. So, it doesn't make a difference if 12 years ago you decided to be M. And 8 years ago, you decided to have a child and 3 years ago you decided to have another child. If your not happy now, then you just need to change things and say, "to hell w/ everyone else, they don't matter. I have to be happy and I'm the only one that matters." C also feels that as long as W and I "take the high road" through out the D, the children w/ be just fine. We'll be teaching them about R and it will give them a healthier understand about them for when they grow-up.


IS IT JUST ME, OR IS THIS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF WISHY WASHY, DON'T TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS KIND OF CRAP ANYONE HAS EVERY HEARD!!! IT'S A REAL NICE THING TO BE DOLING OUT THIS PHILISOPHICAL GARBAGE TO A MOTHER OF TWO THAT IF SHE'S JUST NOT HAPPY W/ HER DECISIONS AND HOW HER LIFE'S TURNED OUT TO PICK UP AND WALK OUT!


Maybe I'm being just a little biased. Seems to me that parents used to concerned what happened to their kids. P realised their children's happiness and wellbeing was their responsibility, whether they liked it or not. Maybe I'm in the wrong era.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I can only wait until W's next C appt. Boy it ought to really hit the fan when she gets home that night.

MariS,
I'll I can say is thank you. I didn't get a chance to read it before the weekend, but at this point I don't know if it would have help too much anyway. As allways, your thoughts and concerns are always much appreciated. Too bad I could get some of you in contact w/ W to wake her up. Maybe someone in touch w/ reality should be talking w/ her instead of this C she's going to.

Generally people when people leave a marriage they have help (a support system of some type encouraging it, i.e. friends or coworkers going through divorce, a MC who supports them in it, an affair, etc...). The therapist may be the support system. But you can't fully blame them. It sounds like this is where your wife was heading anyway, this is what she was seeking and maybe it's even where she needs to go

I can almost guarentee you there is nothing anyone here can say to change your wife's mind. I have friends going through this (they know me, trust me, think I'm rational) and I can't change what they are doing (even by example!!!). I'm convinced it's just something people need to work through. And if you try to change that you'll only be blamed in the long run for holding them back or trying to control their life. You have to let go. Hanging on only prolongs it because she's focusing on you and how you're trying to keep her from doing what she wants. So, I repeat, let go!

By the way, if your wife is taking alternative meds for depression they shouldn't be used in conjunction with SSRIs (particularly 5-htp). Unfortunately althernative meds would probably not be effective enough for severe depression.

RGM,

ouch for you. The biggest problem with Piecing, as I see it, is getting back together before real resolution of the underlying problems has occurred. Then we could be doomed to be in this exact position 3 years from now, or 10, or whatever. Will we feel we wasted that time by taking them back before they're really ready? maybe yes. Also, doing the DB thing really well and seeing good results is wonderful. But I don't know if I could go through this again with H. For me, the DBing was/is a once in a life time thing. Maybe you can do it again, it can't hurt, can it?
j-