Well, he had 2 EA's/PA, but no sex, this was approx 5 yrs ago. He had the one night stand sometime after that time, I'd say w/in a year or 2 (this scenerio was he was deployed, out @ bar - hotel manager saw him & used master key to get into his room & gave him a BJ, he promptly kicked her out). He didn't tell me about any of these until 2 1/2 yrs ago.
This latest is an EA, I'm pretty sure I know who it is, but have not asked specifically for name. Not sure how long it has been going on. He told me about it maybe a month ago. It seems they still talk on the phone, but only on his cell or when I'm not going to be around, however, he has been more open about her and actually did call her one time from home phone knowing I would walk in. She and another person from work were going to another town to get his work going away present & he was calling to make sure they got back ok b/c there was a lot of construction on highway.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
First off, I want to tell you that it is NOT your fault that your husband has repeatedly cheated on you. That doesn't mean that you haven't contributed to the condition of your marriage, but that still is not an excuse for his behavior.
Now I am going to tell you a few things about situations similar to yours that have been observed in general.
Serial cheaters are unlikely to change their behavior. That doesn't mean that all of them remain that way forever, but that there is a high likelihood that no matter what you do, he will continue to repeat his behavior. His behavior is likely rooted in his personality flaws, and you and your children are the unfortunate victims of his actions.
If you are currently accepting blame for his behavior, then you need to stop, pronto. That type of attitude, in your situation, actually enables the affair because he will use your admissions of blame as an excuse to continue his bad behavior.
I understand that you don't want to see your family torn apart, and that three children are very compelling reasons to keep the marriage together.
What I have written to you has probably upset you. I am sorry if it has hurt your feelings. If you want to continue talking about it with me, then I can provide you with some additional resources that may help. If not, then I will not be offended.
I am sorry for your pain.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
No offense taken. I have told him that cheating on me was a choice that HE MADE. I realize that my "downfalls" in the M contributed to his feelings of neglect, etc., but he made the choice to cheat on me rather than sit down & discuss his feelings. I do not take the blame for his cheating. I do take the blame for the things I did or did not do in my M to get us to where we are, however, if his cheating continues (like this next year while he's gone), I don't think I will "accept" another A. I have been constant and faithful ever since the D bomb and have shown him nothing but love, respect and faithfulness in working on our M and making positive changes. If this is not good enough for him in the long run, I don't want him. I figure I will already be used to not having him around after he's been gone for a year anyway if he decides to come back & has changed his mind about staying married. If he doesn't come to the realization that he actually has it very darn good, that's his loss. Sometimes, I am so close to saying "the hell w/ it" b/c he has not put any sort of effort into putting our M back together. Everything has been my fault and I have bent over backwards to show him I never meant to reject him (by not wanting sex) or hurting him by not necessarily being there for him emotionally either (we had 3 boys in 7 yrs - whole other story). He has never apologized for the ugly things he has said to me since the D bomb, he says they were just the truth, however, it would still be nice to some day hear that he appreciates me sticking it out so that I don't feel like I have absolutely just given up all self respect and accepted all of this w/o reason. I haven't given up that he may say that to me one day, he is just not there yet, therefore, I am not to the giving up point yet either if I still think we are going to be ok one day.
I know, I'm rambling, but this is just getting deeper into what has transpired since he dropped the D bomb and before, other than our sexual problems which I began addressing w/ you guys.
I appreciate any and all thoughts/input.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Oh, and one other thing he has said, well I truly accidentally found it in a journal he started -- it was about 3 pgs -- he said that he thought he used to have issues w/ commitment, but doesn't think that any more. In other words, I take that as he used to think that b/c of his cheating, but now just blames it on me and the fact that he wasn't happy w/ me. I truly hope that he isn't a serial cheater and that he is done. I guess we'll just wait and see.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
NOPs gives a much more direct POV and response. I agree with him. Here's my wordier and more personal story.
Seeing EAs and Pas from the POV as simply a reaction by a spouse of getting what they want from someone else since they cannot get it from their own spouse is too simplistic and is a kind of "blame the victim" mentality which relieves "blame" from the person who is actually responsible for poor decisions and actions. I believe the spouse in the EA or PA BELIEVES that their spouse does not meet their needs as their EA/PA partner does but that does not necessarily make it true and definitely does not mean that the spouse CANNOT meet their needs eventually. Chrome addressed this issue succinctly by referring to it as a "fog."
For full disclosure I am sensitive to EA and PA discussions since my XH had a few EAs which finally led to a PA. I was a supportive, empathetic, loving, caring, attentive, GOOD wife (as verified by him AFTER the lifting of the fog). I also was not an LD spouse and we did have a good sex life so that was not the cause of the PA. That is important because it shows you cannot guarantee prevention of an EA or PA by being a good spouse and by having a good marriage. (Frank Pittman refers to this phenomenon in his discussion of the types of affairs there are) Of course it still is a good idea to look at yourself and see where your weaknesses are (in your eyes and your H's eyes). Nobody is perfect and we should all be striving to improve ourselves.
I know I can be too practical but EAs are so easy for me to understand. Of course another man or woman can be great to talk to and easy to talk to. You do not have any "normal" life interfering with your relationship. This EA partner does not leave their dirty socks all over the bedroom or spend too much money on clothes or shoes. They do not fuss at you about how you do not load the dishwasher correctly, how you talk too much, how you leave the toilet seat up, etc. They are always attentive because your contact is usually minimal compared to a spouse. There is NO baggage so why wouldn't an EA feel good and feel EASY (another typical comment "things with him/her are just so easy")? A spouse can never compete with an EA partner at least in the beginning. That person can always be capable of showing their best side because they are not with each other all day.
My Xh said one of the first things that attracted him to his last EA and eventual PA was her "happiness." I was not happy with my job so I did not smile and laugh ALL the time. I did manage it fairly well but that also included some complaining (I guess I believed it was okay to share my troubles with my XH). This woman for the few hours they saw each other every week was always able to keep a smile on her face. Of course he admitted that when they spent more time together he found out she was not any happier than me. By then though it was too late...
For me another problem is the perception that this "great" EA relationship somehow "shows" the problems in your marriage. For example I laugh when men consistently say how WONDERFUL it is that I do not like to shop and that I love to watch sports and how they "wish" their wives were like me when in reality it annoyed my XH that I did not like to shop and, although we did watch some sports together, he thought I was too into sports. So there you go. I always wondered how many of the guys in reality would have really enjoyed it as much as they THOUGHT they would have. So I or they could have been susceptible to an EA if I had LET myself fall into that trap of thinking see how these guys LOVE my traits. Therefore my H must be all wrong for me because this guy loves this about me. Grass is always greener kind of thing. Trust me every man and woman should be aware that there is probably at least ONE other man or woman looking at their spouse thinking that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
For my XH, his need for the EA relationships had to do with his own personal issues of which I had no control. Frustrating to be sure since I desperately wanted to feel like I could DO something (be a better wife, thinner, prettier, smarter, etc.). Since it really had nothing to do with me, there was nothing I could do.
In the end an EA is ALWAYS damaging to a marriage. By its very definition an EA is where you give emotional support and communication to someone of the opposite sex who is NOT your spouse. How can that NOT take away from your marriage?
As far as thoughts about how to deal with it, I think you have to stay in a low key place because attacking him or her will only put him on the defensive and make him want to protect her. I think in some ways you are just going to have to keep doing all the "right" things and wait for things to die off between them or for her to get back together with her ex-boyfriend. You cannot "force" him to give her up especially with deployment starting. I agree with continuing to be someone he can count on and turn to. With some luck there will be times where he cannot talk with her and turns to you. There will be opportunities like this where he can see that you are capable of being there for him. While the EA can and may continue while he is deployed, the good thing is that it does buy you time from the EA turning to a PA. Take some comfort in that and stay in positive spirits. Do NOT place yourself in competition with this woman. You are his wife and the mother of his kids. He does love you. You cannot "win" him back by being perfect. You can allow him to see you in a positive light and then it will be his choice and he may have to make a decision later. Hopefully it will not come to that.
Sorry I wish I had some magical ways to guarantee success but my XH says there was nothing I could have done because he just did not see his EAs as a problem. He does say that he will never have EAs again. I have asked him so many questions since the fog lifted because it is a great opportunity to be able to help others. Unfortunately I have not gotten any major breakthroughs because he is now so aware of his own issues. The key would have been that I could have shown him exactly what his problem was and I HOPE we all know that is impossible to do. You have to see your problems for yourself.
I can say that once you know the EA is over. THEN will be the time to have a non-confrontational discussion about how serious EAs can be and why it is important for both spouses to be aware of the danger.
Here is my personal tactic in avoiding EAs:
I had/have plenty of male friends but I have some "rules" 1) no personal (marriage) confiding with male friends (MF), 2) no talking to MF about anything that I would not/have not tell/told H 3) No talking about H in any other light than positive 4) Do not EVER speak about MF's girlfriend or wife in anything other than positive light. Even if they are crazy or witchy; figure out some positive spin OR keep mouth shut.
That's it. Nothing too complicated but if I kept myself a good distance from that fine line, I never had to worry about losing my balance, tripping, etc. or the MF losing his balance. There was plenty of SAFE space between us. Sure I acknowledged to xH I could be losing out on a GREAT deep friendship with a MF but the upside was that my marriage was safe. I valued my marriage over these types of friendships and my xH did not. A personal choice that he was free to make and it hurt me but I chose to live with it. I then had to trust and accept that he would be vigilant in these relationships to prevent a PA. Too naive and trusting, maybe but I loved him and wanted to stay married.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I know at times I feel and know others think I'm being very naive & way too trusting and have put up w/ way too much from H, but I do truly love him and want to make up to him the things I have done or not done to damage our M. There, of course, are 2 sides to our story and WHY I may have been acting the way I was, but that doesn't even need to be hashed out as far as I'm concerned. If he does choose to walk away, I want to make sure I have shown him how much I love him and how willing I am to fix those things now that he has finally told me how unhappy he was. He has not been willing to even touch the fact that I really did not know the extent of his unhappiness, but that's neither here nor there.
I appreciate your thoughts about the EA not being "normal life." I guess that is how I choose to look at it also. She probably looks & seems perfect from his POV, but he sees me day in & day out and knows my faults, etc.
I am just going to continue on the path I'm on. I only have 3 weeks left. Just going to love him and hope that he realizes that what we have is worth holding onto.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Lou: think I'm missing something here - you drinking? or did I miss the code?
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Cadesmom, I felt wanted and desired by OW, that she felt I was attractive emotionally and physically. I felt no desire or attraction from my W. I felt understood by OW, that we agreed on most important life issues. I did not feel that way with my W. I felt that OW wanted to have fun with me and have an exciting life. I felt that my W wanted to only focus on the minutiae of existing. I felt like OW listened to me and wanted to help me. I felt like my W only cared about herself and her needs. I felt like OW appreciated everything I did for her. I felt like my W appreciated nothing I did for her. I felt like OW was actively trying to do nice things for me. I felt that my W would rather focus on the kids or herself.
Obviously, looking at the above list, many of the items are as a result of the "fog" of an EA. Things that are in fact small seem huge and lots of rationalizing occurs.
Chrome's and fearless's explanation were very good. I have not had a full blown EA but here is a posting of mine from a couple of years ago that shows how easy it was for me to fantasize in this area. I got smacked down pretty good at the time (deservedly) and some very good points were made about how easy it is to find attraction when you are in "dating best behavior mode".
By the way, somewhere in the thread I suggested that I would simply give my W the thread so she could know what exactly was going on in my head. I did give it to her and it spurred an interesting discussion. This tactic is not for the faint of heart though and could have easily backfired on me.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
