I've cringed quite often at what I would consider your browbeating of people who don't quickly accept your assessment of their situation or character.
I admit I am hard on people at times. I know I do it. But I am also trying to break through repeated deflections and avoidance. That may not be comfortable, but it does not make my views wrong. As for browbeating, well, you’re not exactly a saint either. Nop’s been called to task for the same thing too.
Why is it one thing to talk about narcissism and another to talk about affairs?
Because a poster on this board will not go running to a spouse to accuse him/herself (the poster) of having narcissistic tendencies. OTOH, talk about affairs could make the poster go running to accuse the spouse of having an affair. Big difference IMO.
Why is it one thing to lable someone with a mental illness, and another to point out that certain activities/behaviors/attitudes are congruent with infidelity?
I see no difference. BTW, except for my early days of posting on this board, when have I since labeled someone with mental illness? Even a C cannot do that.
I don't think I've ever seen NOP push his thoughts on anyone who gives an indication that they don't want to go there.
When did I say Nop was pushing his thoughts on anyone? I said “I don’t know exactly what is triggering Nop’s “full gale warning,” but I do not assume she is having an affair, online or otherwise.” Where did I imply he was pushing anything?
And I must point out that NOP did not hint or intimate that there was a possible affair. What he DID do, is wave a caution flag to Chrome and encourage him not to avoid looking into this *possible* vulnerability based on misplaced guilt.
Bull. He intimated an affair. Burgbud and Lou fell for it too.
Are you under the misguided impression, that everyone must post all possible scenarios/possibilities in every post?
Are you under the misguided impression that those who are lost and seeking help should be given only one possibility to consider, when there are many others that may be just as viable? And only the person in question truly knows the situation, not us on this cyber board.
Perhaps you do, since that would explain the multi-paragraph missives that are the verbal equivalent of a bull in a china shop with contradicting suggestions often in the next paragraph.
Upon what are you making the distinction, other than your personal preferences?
NOP answers questions that come from the person to whom he is posting.
From my viewpoint, you've been chasing him about several threads, making ill-informed comments about him and just seem to be jumping up and down for his attention.
Oh really? I seem to recall Chrome asking me if I would discuss his FOO, so he started a new thread. It seems to me Nop chased me over to this thread. Now you’re chasing me too. To what purpose?
Why do you have such an visceral response when he doesn't answer you in situations that aren't focused upon you?
Interesting question. Why don’t you answer that? It seems to me that you’re the one having the visceral response. I’m quite amused by all this fuss. It seems you two have done a splendid job of twisting yourself up, all over a simple, nonchalant comment to Nop’s boneheaded statement.
I have never seen NOP even hint at anything equivalent to "do this because I said so and maybe I'll explain it all to you later" - but this appears to be what you are consistantly accusing him of.
Now that sounds rather absolute, don’t you think? We all know better that to state things in absolutes... tsk, tsk….
In your earlier thread, NOP went into great detail in regards to his advice to you. Go through it and see just how much explaining he did. You either couldn't see it or just didn't agree with it, but nowhere in it did he encourage you to blindly follow his suggestions.
I didn’t want to take Nop’s advice. I didn’t like it. And even though I know you would like to find a way to drag me off topic, tell me, just what does this have to do with Nop’s statement to Chrome? Hmmm?
Lil didn't merely pose a question in the above referenced thread, she provided a character assasination attempt. She got called on it.
I saw no evidence of that. Again, upon what are you making the distinction, other than your personal preferences? But Nop did make a boneheaded comment, and he got quietly , very non-confrontationally called on that. He and you are the ones who have made a public spectacle of it. What, oh what, could be your purpose?
His input stands on its own merit to be judged by the recepient.
…but just in case, it will be backed up by his wife, who will “without apology, respond to snarky personal comments at my husband in kind, guns blazing and with larger caliber.”
Bull. He intimated an affair. Burgbud and Lou fell for it too. Cobra, what I was implying to Chrom is, therer is a void in Mrs Chrom's life and if he could find out what she was doing till 2AM on the internet, it might help him understand what is going on in her mind.
I am on the internet till 2AM, so where is my A? Who is my partner? I feel lost/lonely lots of times and was thinking maybe Mrs. Chrom was feeling a few of the things similar to me feelings.
In addition to potential "A's" the internet can be a crutch, or a tool for some people. I find valuable information on the internet, but at a cost.
Bull. He intimated an affair. Burgbud and Lou fell for it too.
Cobra, what I was implying to Chrom is, therer is a void in Mrs Chrom's life and if he could find out what she was doing till 2AM on the internet, it might help him understand what is going on in her mind.
Bingo, Lou. Staying up to the wee hours of the morning on the internet can be an indication of unhappiness. Often the HD partners here aren't aware of how deeply unhappy their LD spouse may be (and that can often be because the LD spouse hasn't expressed it). I'm sure you would rather be spending your time in pleasant exchanges with your wife. Some of your time on the 'net is spent pursuing info that might help your situation, trying to share with others in similar situations, or just avoiding laying in the bed feeling estranged and sad while your wife is just on the other side.
I spent a lot of time on the 'net during our hardest time - it was a form of distraction and withdrawal. Time and emotional energy spent online was time & energy I didn't expend into my marriage. I wasn't looking for relationships, but I was moving ever further emotionally away from my husband.
I was reading marriagebuilders and NOP was reading here. Initially, neither of us discussed what we were doing. At some point we began sharing some of the situations we were reading about. A "listen to this one" sort of thing. It actually opened up a dialog for us. We could talk about other people's marital situations and since it wasn't directly about us, it wasn't volatile. That made it somewhat easier to eventually move into real discussions about ourselves.
Chrome's wife would appear to be in a very vulnerable place as indicated by her late-night time online. It could be an indication of how just how unhappy she is right now. Might be she's sick of being supermom and is kvetching about that, might be she's talking to people about sexual issues, might be she's utterly weary with her life at this time and just can't bring herself to talk to anyone she actually knows about it, and it might be that she's flirting online. Could be a myriad of things, all of which are potential vulnerabilities.
And if Chrome can find out what she's doing, it may be just the key to open up their relationship.
MrsNOP -
PS. Burg, you didn't make me feel defensive, I was just categorizing my past responses for you.
I totally agree - I too have spent way too much time online, late at night, trying to find someone, anyone that could relate to what I was going through.
I am so grateful to have found this site - albeit a lot lately than I would have hoped, but better late than never as they say
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Great! Those are some of the possibilities NOP had in mind when he posted his warning. I don't think I've ever seen NOP "hint" about possible affairs, he comes right out and says if he thinks there might be, and it's not as if he has ever been shy about saying it straight out. So I don't understand why you would think he would suddenly be all coy about it.
If he believed so and wanted to say "I think she's having an online affair" he would have outright said, "I think she's having an online affair." After all, he's not exactly shy about expressing himself.
I think this all boils down to your distaste for his delivery rather than what he actually said - more about personalities rather than content. :shrug: Everyone can offer what they want to say in the way they want to say it. The reader can glean the wheat from the chaff, but it's a major (IMO) distraction to get all caught up in "style wars". YMMV.
I find it counterproductive to repeatedly try to tell someone what "they *really* meant" when they tell you otherwise. It is a real communication killer.
Mrs. NOP Bingo, Lou. Staying up to the wee hours of the morning on the internet can be an indication of unhappiness. Often the HD partners here aren't aware of how deeply unhappy their LD spouse may be (and that can often be because the LD spouse hasn't expressed it). I'm sure you would rather be spending your time in pleasant exchanges with your wife.
Right on sister!
A "listen to this one" sort of thing. It actually opened up a dialog for us. We could talk about other people's marital situations and since it wasn't directly about us, it wasn't volatile.. Right on again. I shared some of the things I read, with BB, hoping it will help us or in cases like MoJo's H, to help someone else here.
It could be an indication of.... Many things and too many to guess, so that is why I said if it were me, I would want to know and do some of my own investigating.
I don't know about Mrs. Chroms style (with holding vs. let it all out, or deflecting) of communicating, but I know it is difficult to communicate with BB without the conversation going it's own direction. Did I say when that happens, it sucks?
So, Chrom knowing from his own investigation of what is taking place, can look at the facts he discovers, then do what he feels is the next step. The facts won't be 100% reliable. The will be subject to her intent, but I am certain if Chrom finds something he doesnt know what it indicates, there is lots of help here or thouugh someone locally.
I definitely am very sorry for taking so long to answer questions, I have just been busy this week judging Honors projects and such. End of semester always kills me. I have read everything though and have many thoughts (surprise).
I did want to throw something else out there. I went to see the C last night. I have been feeling really down lately and needed to talk it out. One thing he is always good at is stopping me from "pit diving" by validating that my feelings are reasonable. He says that it is understandable that I am depressed and anxious and flailing, stop beating myself up about all the times I knew I should keep my mouth shut and just act, or all the times I couldn't find the right words or said something completely wrong. If my M is going to succeed it at the very least should be able to survive small setbacks, so don't get all worked up about them. If it can't, then it just isn't meant to be. He validates that it is normal for me to still feel very confused about where I am going and what I need to do.
Anyway, we talked a bit about planning for the future, and one possibility came up. Often people have mentioned to me two things (1) you need to work on yourself (2) grasping and flailing in your current state is hurting the situation. So the proposal is to take time off to really find myself. It is not something new, others have suggested it to me before (I think BF is one). But the idea is to set a rough period of time (but be flexible) and have the mindset that R issues fade into the background for that period. It doesn't mean that I ignore my W, in fact quite the opposite. The possibility strongly exists that she will feel the vacuum and step in to try to fill it. The trick for me is to not rush back over to the old ways when/if she makes the first overture. It is an interesting idea and my homework is to ponder it till the next meeting.
So the next question is, how do I find myself? Obviously the goal is to become comfortable with liking myself, thinking of myself as a good person, being comfortable alone, appreciating the world around me, enjoying life, etc. Is this just something that happens over time?
My concerns were (1) going too far and withdrawing from the R instead of just stopping the flailing (2) how to supress my desire for a passionate R for this period of time. (3) NOT going back into the shell I was in pre-EA. I have noticed a bit of that over the past few months and it is a little scary. Some IRL friends have commented on me being more withdrawn lately.
Sorry if this is a little more incomprehensible than usual, I am in a hurry.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
