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MrsCAC,

I think this all depends on what MrsChrome considers to be "pressure," and in that way, Chrome has a say. If pressure is the choice of going to C and mustering the strength to confront some deep seated fears versus staying at home and keeping things as they are, then she will definitely feel pressured. OTOH if her choice is to go to C of call a D lawyer, she might see C as a relief and a small price to pay to keep her family together. We do not know the "price" she places on confronting her issues. It is important for her and Chrome to know this "price" so that they can evaluate their choices for action.

I think you and others need to realize the "price" of one choice versus another can be changed, but you need to think a little outside the box, KWIM?

Got boatloads to respond to (and I really do want to respond as the discussion is helpful in many ways), but just got back from a long day on the road with the wife and kids. Had a few realizations.

(1) I am not enjoying life. I focus so much on the fact that my R is shiat that I don't notice all the little things like I should. There is a ton of absolutely beautiful flowers all around my house now (the previous owners were very good at planting flowering bushes). But when I look at them all I can think of is not being able to share in this beauty with a SO. I should be able to just appreciate it on its own, revel in the fact that I am alive and can see such amazing things. sigh ...

(2) In a convo with a good friend about the sitch, he gave the good advice IMHO to try to find out what her goals in life were. I know that she has to be the one to pursue them, and I should only help if asked, but I figure I could maybe do some facillitating, like being more assertive about watching the kids while she does her thing. Plus, talking about such things should be a good convo starter, it always seems to work with strangers. Anyway, I botched the delivery. I meant to ask "what goals do you have besides the kids and marriage, what goals do you have that are all about you?" Instead what came out (stupid, stupid, stupid, said in my best Chris Farley voice) was "what is your number one goal in life?" Her response was not expected at all ... "I don't want to outlive my kids." After I scratched my head mentally for a few seconds, I then tried to recover "no, I meant what is your number one goal outside of the kids" (notice how I botched it yet again). She said she had no real goals outside of that. Now my stupid internal "what about me?" imp was starting to scream, but I persisted. I said "surely you have some things you really want to do or accomplish outside of the kids." She responded, "not really. I do have some small things like learn to love to eat vegetables, but that is about it." By this point, instead of keeping with the convo trying to glean something useful, I had to beat down the stupid imp before he made me do something rash. sigh ...

(3) The W really is wore out, more than she should be. She does spend several hours in front of the computer at night checking message boards as part of her "alone time." But even now, when she has been sick with a head cold for almost a month, she will sit in front of the computer till after midnight, then her bed prep (shower and all that), she often doesn't get to sleep till two AM. The kids routinely wake up at 6 AM. And the cycle feeds on itself because lack of sleep promotes her being sedentary (i.e. computer at night). So far, my suggestions to go to bed earlier have not been successful.

That's all for now.

Chrome

Chrome wrote:
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She does spend several hours in front of the computer at night checking message boards as part of her "alone time." But even now, when she has been sick with a head cold for almost a month, she will sit in front of the computer till after midnight, then her bed prep (shower and all that), she often doesn't get to sleep till two AM.
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Please tell me why all my flags shouldn't be at full gale warning?

Make sure that you aren't letting your prior lapse in judgement impair your sensibilities when it comes to your wife.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

Mrs. Chrom said? "I don't want to outlive my kids."
Chrom, that is not normal or rational.

I do the 2AM stuff sometimes and I know it isn't right. Sometimes it is because of things in general and sometimes it is because the marital R isn't right.

She does spend several hours in front of the computer at night checking message boards...
Addiction, dependent, or something else???? Which one is your guess?

And the cycle feeds on itself because lack of sleep promotes her being sedentary (i.e. computer at night).
Maybe the computer in the day too? Is it time for a key logger?

So far, my suggestions to go to bed earlier have not been successful.
So, you are like the majority of posters here.

Sounds like a walking program would be good for both of you. Key logger, with time stamps? Not to check for cheating but to see how addicted your W is to the computer.


Lou

Chrome,

I know you have mentioned that your W reads other message boards, trying to learn about marriage problems. Am I correct in assuming she is trying to understand how to deal with an H in MLC, or some other kind of issue? Maybe trying to understand your emotional swings, lack of esteem, your abuse issues, etc? I don’t know exactly what is triggering Nop’s “full gale warning,” but I do not assume she is having an affair, online or otherwise. Living right across the street from her parents can be a problem for a marriage in its own right, but one good thing is that her parents can be a watchdog over her. It would be a little harder for her to be seeing someone else, what with an armload of kids, and answering to her nosey mother. I may be wrong, so keep your eyes open but don’t let this unnecessarily stress you.

Her response was not expected at all ... "I don't want to outlive my kids."

This response does not surprise me at all. In fact, it is very much in line with what I would expect. My W was exactly the same way. Early in our M, I noticed that she never seemed to look, plan or think more than a month into the future. She had no idea what she wanted to do or where she wanted to go. This made a lot of sense from the perspective of a person who is only concerned with survival. One day at a time.

Perhaps this applies to your W? Did she have goals before you two married? What did she want to do in life then? What ever those goals were may be your best insight to what she would like to do. For now, her kids are her life. End of story.

The other thing I see in her statement is fear. She does not want the pain of losing her kids. She is focusing on avoiding disaster rather than living for something positive. The glass half empty versus half full thing. Why she does this may be very important for her to realize. Are you sure you know everything about her past? It is hard to understand this way of thinking without some kind of trauma or abuse.

Now my stupid internal "what about me?" imp was starting to scream, but I persisted.

Good for you in persisting. Try to not deny the feelings of your “imp” but rather observe them. Each time that imp acts up, know that after all is said and done, your W is still there. She has not left, nothing has changed. So that imp is just a conversation in your head. Try to see that it is really born out of a conditioned emotional response, sort of a brainwashing you received as a kid, and has nothing to do with reality.

I think it is good you focus on the positive and the good you have in your life. That way of thinking will take a lot of the negativity off your W. If she suspects you are in an MLC, t hen everything she will read on the internet will not be supportive. She will read that she has to just wait, that the “fog” of MLC can take years to clear up, that a many men do not return to the marriage, that hey are susceptible to renewed affairs, that there is nothing she can do but to disengage, detach, be the best W she can and wait. If this is what she is reading, then I can see how she is looking at life as a single mother with no career, no security of income, possibly an exH starting up a new family with someone else, so why would she be able to focus on anything else other than her kids. How could she see any further into the future than that? To me, these are the tertiary effects of unresolved FOO, your FOO and hers.

I believe your W is scared sh!tless. Scared because of her own issues and scared because of what you did. Get off YOUR pity pot, tell that imp to shut up, take responsibility for your actions, but only your responsibility, not hers, stop dancing on eggshells and worrying about how you should phrase a particular sentence and just open up. If this is difficult for you, then learn from Hairdog. Maybe lay out your thoughts in email. I doubt she will put much effort into replying, other than to appease you, but at least you can organize your intentions and approach.

A good place to start would be to just ask what it is she is doing on the PC at night. That should lead to an awful lot of topics for discussion.

Hi, Cobra.

Don't you think that Chrome is intelligent to deal with me on his own?

I am not saying his wife is having an affair. It is clear, however, that his wife is not allowing Chrome to met her needs. That leaves her potentially open to the attentions of someone else. A vulnerable position for sure.

Even the act of sharing intimate details of our lives on this forum, mostly anonymously or not, leaves those of us that might become momentarily inattentive, vulnerable to an unhealthy emotional attachment.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

Is it time for a key logger?

Chrome, I think you should consider this. Those of us on this board can probably easily understand the lure of an online community, especially for a woman who claims to be living entirely for her children. Otoh, the scenario you describe is almost exactly what I dealt with...wife very sick, but still can't get off the computer until the wee hours of the morning. What is such a strong draw that she'd jeopardize her health? The answer is...something that's making her feel more good than the lack of sleep is making her feel bad.

That doesn't have to be an affair. If you put a key logger on your machine, though, I think you're going to find something you really don't like. Whatever it is, you're going to think, "You can't invest in our emotional R but you can do THIS until the wee hours?" Then you'll have something to deal with, or suppress. Whatever you find is likely to move your M off center, to borrow NOP's terminology. Are you ready for that? Can you handle that?

I never implied anything like an A, just that Chrom could get an idea where his W spends her time om the internet.

If it was at some “MLC“ "A" "my h doesn't talk,” or some other forum, Chrom might discover something she won't talk about with him.

something that's making her feel more good than the lack of sleep is making her feel bad.
Burgbud, this happens to me, so why not to Mrs. Chrom. I see people doing similar things for similar reasons.

I think you're going to find something you really don't like.
Burgbud, I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to know when there are personal problems.

Would you rather someone not know and muddle around for 5 years and not work on the real problem. To me, better to know and work on the fall-out/problems I have, than to work on the R and not find the problems.

Diagnostics is more important than shot gunning/throwing guessed at fixes at a problem.

I worked in a garage/dealership for 25 years and saw my share of mechanics that replaced parts first, and again and again till the problem was fixed or the customer ran out of money.

No thanks. Diagnostic time/$$ is more valuable than throwing parts/money/time at a problem.

NOP, go for it.

Lou

I wasn't very clear, Lou. Were I Chrome, I'd try the key logger. In fact, in my sitch, that's exactly what I did. So I think he should consider doing it.

I'd like him to be prepared, though, not to like what he finds, whether it's an affair or not. And if he's not in a place in his life to deal with it right now, that's a factor in his decision.

Nop,

I think Chrome is plenty intelligent to speak with you. IMO, the problem, like I stated to you before, is that you do not reveal your hand. You make statements or give advice for specific actions, without any explanation. I don’t know why you do that. How is one supposed to interpret “full gale warning,” especially with your signature line of “I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity?”

Did you one time warned some woman that her H may have been having an affair, which turned out to be untrue, but not before sending that poor woman into a panic? Why is it you act like your comments are above question?


Burgbud,

As for suggestions on a keylogger or some other type software. I say Chrome should first just ask his W what she is doing. She might very well ask him what he is doing on the PC. So maybe she needs a keylogger to keep track of him, ya think?

If Chrome is not doing anything wrong, but honestly trying to repair his M, then he has nothing to hide, So openly asking his W should not be a problem. If she then becomes defensive and secretive, then he can start to ask why. But for now, I think a keylogger is jumping the gun and could possibly undermine his efforts to be more open and honest with his W.